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It's unfortunate that world-class alpinists such as Kilian Jornet -- who recently summited Everest solo, in 26 hours, without supplemental oxygen, after trainin

It's unfortunate that world-class alpinists such as Kilian Jornet -- who recently summited Everest solo, in 26 hours, without supplemental oxygen, after training his ass off for years [1] -- won't be able to attempt such a challenge again (unless I'm missing something). There has to be a better solution to the problem mentioned in the article. [1] https://www.outsideonline.com/2187266/kilian-jornet-summits-everest-fastest-known-time https://www.outsideonline.com/2187266/kilian-jornet-summits-...

paulcole 9y ago
Seems like there’s doubts that Kilian submitted at all. Personally, I think he did, but as of now there’s really no proof. http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8591724 http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8591724 Edit: Why downvote this? Is there any evidence Kilian submitted beyond his word?
- justinator 9y ago
  Jornet isn't just some random wahoo. He's won pretty much every major ultra trail race there is, has an unparalleled race ski mountaineering career, and FKTs on other major Seven Summits, including Denali. He's an outlier''s outlier. What then, does he need to prove? What would the reason be for him to lie?
  - paulcole 9y ago
    >What then, does he need to prove? That he has been to the summit. Just for the sake of argument, the reason is pretty obvious: sponsor pressure. You think Salomon is ponying up for him to get to 28,500 and then turn back? Also, didn’t Kilian get DQed for cutting switchbacks in a race after being told repeatedly to knock it off? I know he’s a beast and GOAT but he’s still human.
    - justinator 9y ago
      > the reason is pretty obvious: sponsor pressure. You think Salomon is ponying up for him to get to 28,500 and then turn back? The guy is a living legend in his 20's. He's already failed on Everest before, in 2016. What pressure do you think Salomon has on Jornet? Salomon is a 700 million dollar a year in revenue company, whose parent company has yearly revenue in the billions. They got the scratch and Jornet is Salomon's top athlete, no question about it. I don't even think Salomon was the sole, or even main sponsor. His blog lists Mercedes Benz a b.s. luxury brand that seems to be what's needed as the catalyst for large expeditions into the Himalayas that has nothing to do with mountaineering. The big money in sponsorship (as an athlete) is in racing, not mountaineering. But Jornet has literally won every race there is to win! Salomon is sponsoring Jornet even though he doesn't do what a sponsors runner is supposed to do - because he's his own weather system of getting eyeballs interested in the brands that sponsor him - he doesn't need UTMB, or any other ultra race anymore. He can compete in them for fun, when he wants to. Take it from me, there's little if no money in setting FKTs, and only the Jornet's of the world could pull it off. His sponsors aren't pushing for him to do this stuff, he's telling his sponsors what he's doing, the sponsors put up the hype, and they all make a lot of money. > Also, didn’t Kilian get DQed for cutting switchbacks in a race after being told repeatedly to knock it off? No, he was not disqualified: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyRew7lr5eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyRew7lr5eE There's little to no money in being a professional ultra runner. A little little better in Europe, but the only dude I know that makes a living as a pro ultra runner is so injured, he can't even run. It honestly doesn't matter: he has a huge social media following, and he gets people excited for the brand. He makes a living not running (he doesn't coach, he doesn't put on his own race, nothing). He makes pennies to Jornet's dollars. Believe me, Jornet's doing fine, and wouldn't need to fake a summit bid. Remember too, he summited twice in that one trip.
  - bunderbunder 9y ago
    > What would the reason be for him to lie? Just taking a wild stab at it, avoiding embarrassment and maintaining his reputation. I know literally nothing about him, but I presume he's every bit as human as the rest of us. I'm absolutely not trying to weigh in either way - again, I know literally nothing about him. But also I don't think past accomplishment can be used as such handy proof of subsequent accomplishments.
    - justinator 9y ago
      > Just taking a wild stab at it, avoiding embarrassment and maintaining his reputation. He's failed many times on the, "Summits of My Life" peaks. It's Alpinism! Failure is part of the game. This wasn't even his first time trying Everest. He's clearly not an egotistical guy. > but I presume he's every bit as human as the rest of us. I'd do some research, well worth it. They guy isn't human.
- alexfoo 9y ago
  KJ responded to one article with summit photos plus other evidence (which he doesn't want published yet). https://iancorless.org/2017/12/10/kilian-jornet-everest-speed-records-questions-raised-and-a-response/ https://iancorless.org/2017/12/10/kilian-jornet-everest-spee... (I didn't downvote you, but it's worth doing a bit more research before making a statement like that.)
  - macspoofing 9y ago
    There's nothing wrong with some skepticism. This guy seems legit but nobody gets a pass.
ng12 9y ago
True, but surmounting Everest is not the end-game. K2 is a more grueling, technically difficult climb -- and it's only ~800ft shorter than Everest. That's sort of the problem here, even though Everest is the tallest it's a relatively accessible climb with enough money/gear/training.
- ryannevius 9y ago
  There are literally thousands of more difficult climbs in the Himalaya...I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. For some (even world-class alpinists), summiting Everest faster and by "fair means" is an end game.
justinator 9y ago
Jornet summited from the Chinese side, so this ban wouldn't have made much difference.
GuB-42 9y ago
I suppose one can still solo with a support that's just here in case of emergency, with the added bonus of being able to document the climb.
jdietrich 9y ago
Racing drivers don't get kudos for racing without a helmet or a seat belt - nobody would let them race and they'd be seen as moronic for even suggesting the idea. Nepal have every right to ban people from doing pointless, stupid things on their mountain. Jornet's good friend Ueli Steck died earlier this year. He was solo climbing Nuptse without fixed protection, supplemental oxygen or even ice axes. If Jornet has not learned from this senseless tragedy, then Nepal has no obligation to entertain him. If you want to kill yourself, do it at sea level.
- deepGem 9y ago
  The racing analogy might have some flaws. Seat belts and helmets are for protection, they don't aid you in driving. Ice axes and supplemental oxygen aid you in climbing. You could very well climb without them. They are not safety devices. Seat belt is by definition a safety device which will save your life in case of a high speed accident. I think the only seat belt equivalent is the climbing rope.
  - lloeki 9y ago
    What do you think the rope is tied to? A team member. The team itself is your seat belt in such ascensions.
    - matsur 9y ago
      It’s possible to use a rope as protection without a partner. “Rope-soloing” is not uncommon on harder, more remote climbs.
    - hprotagonist 9y ago
      on everest, it's usually tied to a snow anchor. The Sherpa who put the anchor there usually wasn't tied to anything.
  - jdietrich 9y ago
    Traditional rock climbers use their ropes and equipment as both a fall-arrest system and a means of ascent. Sport climbers only use their ropes as a fall-arrest system and sometimes and a means of resting on the rock. The same can be done with ice axes - they're a vital means of arresting a fall, regardless of whether you use them to ascend. If you're determined to climb into the death zone without supplemental oxygen, you could still carry a small cylinder as a bailout option. Hell, if you want to make the climb really challenging, you could carry ten oxygen cylinders and a Piñata. More to the point, you could just not climb Everest. Other than the altitude, there's nothing particularly interesting about the climb. The Nürburgring was the most interesting and challenging course in the Formula 1 world championship, but the sport abandoned it in 1976 because it couldn't be made safe. The drivers agreed that no race track was worth creating widows and orphans for.
macspoofing 9y ago
The world can do just fine without solo Everest climbers.

paulcole 9y ago

Seems like there’s doubts that Kilian submitted at all. Personally, I think he did, but as of now there’s really no proof. http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8591724 http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8591724 Edit: Why downvote this? Is there any evidence Kilian submitted beyond his word?

justinator 9y ago
Jornet isn't just some random wahoo. He's won pretty much every major ultra trail race there is, has an unparalleled race ski mountaineering career, and FKTs on other major Seven Summits, including Denali. He's an outlier''s outlier. What then, does he need to prove? What would the reason be for him to lie?
- paulcole 9y ago
  >What then, does he need to prove? That he has been to the summit. Just for the sake of argument, the reason is pretty obvious: sponsor pressure. You think Salomon is ponying up for him to get to 28,500 and then turn back? Also, didn’t Kilian get DQed for cutting switchbacks in a race after being told repeatedly to knock it off? I know he’s a beast and GOAT but he’s still human.
  - justinator 9y ago
    > the reason is pretty obvious: sponsor pressure. You think Salomon is ponying up for him to get to 28,500 and then turn back? The guy is a living legend in his 20's. He's already failed on Everest before, in 2016. What pressure do you think Salomon has on Jornet? Salomon is a 700 million dollar a year in revenue company, whose parent company has yearly revenue in the billions. They got the scratch and Jornet is Salomon's top athlete, no question about it. I don't even think Salomon was the sole, or even main sponsor. His blog lists Mercedes Benz a b.s. luxury brand that seems to be what's needed as the catalyst for large expeditions into the Himalayas that has nothing to do with mountaineering. The big money in sponsorship (as an athlete) is in racing, not mountaineering. But Jornet has literally won every race there is to win! Salomon is sponsoring Jornet even though he doesn't do what a sponsors runner is supposed to do - because he's his own weather system of getting eyeballs interested in the brands that sponsor him - he doesn't need UTMB, or any other ultra race anymore. He can compete in them for fun, when he wants to. Take it from me, there's little if no money in setting FKTs, and only the Jornet's of the world could pull it off. His sponsors aren't pushing for him to do this stuff, he's telling his sponsors what he's doing, the sponsors put up the hype, and they all make a lot of money. > Also, didn’t Kilian get DQed for cutting switchbacks in a race after being told repeatedly to knock it off? No, he was not disqualified: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyRew7lr5eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyRew7lr5eE There's little to no money in being a professional ultra runner. A little little better in Europe, but the only dude I know that makes a living as a pro ultra runner is so injured, he can't even run. It honestly doesn't matter: he has a huge social media following, and he gets people excited for the brand. He makes a living not running (he doesn't coach, he doesn't put on his own race, nothing). He makes pennies to Jornet's dollars. Believe me, Jornet's doing fine, and wouldn't need to fake a summit bid. Remember too, he summited twice in that one trip.
- bunderbunder 9y ago
  > What would the reason be for him to lie? Just taking a wild stab at it, avoiding embarrassment and maintaining his reputation. I know literally nothing about him, but I presume he's every bit as human as the rest of us. I'm absolutely not trying to weigh in either way - again, I know literally nothing about him. But also I don't think past accomplishment can be used as such handy proof of subsequent accomplishments.
  - justinator 9y ago
    > Just taking a wild stab at it, avoiding embarrassment and maintaining his reputation. He's failed many times on the, "Summits of My Life" peaks. It's Alpinism! Failure is part of the game. This wasn't even his first time trying Everest. He's clearly not an egotistical guy. > but I presume he's every bit as human as the rest of us. I'd do some research, well worth it. They guy isn't human.
alexfoo 9y ago
KJ responded to one article with summit photos plus other evidence (which he doesn't want published yet). https://iancorless.org/2017/12/10/kilian-jornet-everest-speed-records-questions-raised-and-a-response/ https://iancorless.org/2017/12/10/kilian-jornet-everest-spee... (I didn't downvote you, but it's worth doing a bit more research before making a statement like that.)
- macspoofing 9y ago
  There's nothing wrong with some skepticism. This guy seems legit but nobody gets a pass.

ng12 9y ago

True, but surmounting Everest is not the end-game. K2 is a more grueling, technically difficult climb -- and it's only ~800ft shorter than Everest. That's sort of the problem here, even though Everest is the tallest it's a relatively accessible climb with enough money/gear/training.

ryannevius 9y ago
There are literally thousands of more difficult climbs in the Himalaya...I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. For some (even world-class alpinists), summiting Everest faster and by "fair means" is an end game.

justinator 9y ago

Jornet summited from the Chinese side, so this ban wouldn't have made much difference.

GuB-42 9y ago

I suppose one can still solo with a support that's just here in case of emergency, with the added bonus of being able to document the climb.

jdietrich 9y ago

Racing drivers don't get kudos for racing without a helmet or a seat belt - nobody would let them race and they'd be seen as moronic for even suggesting the idea. Nepal have every right to ban people from doing pointless, stupid things on their mountain. Jornet's good friend Ueli Steck died earlier this year. He was solo climbing Nuptse without fixed protection, supplemental oxygen or even ice axes. If Jornet has not learned from this senseless tragedy, then Nepal has no obligation to entertain him. If you want to kill yourself, do it at sea level.

deepGem 9y ago
The racing analogy might have some flaws. Seat belts and helmets are for protection, they don't aid you in driving. Ice axes and supplemental oxygen aid you in climbing. You could very well climb without them. They are not safety devices. Seat belt is by definition a safety device which will save your life in case of a high speed accident. I think the only seat belt equivalent is the climbing rope.
- lloeki 9y ago
  What do you think the rope is tied to? A team member. The team itself is your seat belt in such ascensions.
  - matsur 9y ago
    It’s possible to use a rope as protection without a partner. “Rope-soloing” is not uncommon on harder, more remote climbs.
  - hprotagonist 9y ago
    on everest, it's usually tied to a snow anchor. The Sherpa who put the anchor there usually wasn't tied to anything.
- jdietrich 9y ago
  Traditional rock climbers use their ropes and equipment as both a fall-arrest system and a means of ascent. Sport climbers only use their ropes as a fall-arrest system and sometimes and a means of resting on the rock. The same can be done with ice axes - they're a vital means of arresting a fall, regardless of whether you use them to ascend. If you're determined to climb into the death zone without supplemental oxygen, you could still carry a small cylinder as a bailout option. Hell, if you want to make the climb really challenging, you could carry ten oxygen cylinders and a Piñata. More to the point, you could just not climb Everest. Other than the altitude, there's nothing particularly interesting about the climb. The Nürburgring was the most interesting and challenging course in the Formula 1 world championship, but the sport abandoned it in 1976 because it couldn't be made safe. The drivers agreed that no race track was worth creating widows and orphans for.

macspoofing 9y ago

The world can do just fine without solo Everest climbers.