4 ms·

> "well, he shouldn't have had a knife in his hand" Right. German cops, for example, are trained to shoot people in the leg in that scenario. It happens quite

by TillE 9y ago

> "well, he shouldn't have had a knife in his hand" Right. German cops, for example, are trained to shoot people in the leg in that scenario. It happens quite frequently and successfully. American cops seem like they're all on a hair trigger to kill at the slightest hint of danger, rather than as a last resort when they're truly threatened.

kipari 9y ago
I remember a tidbit from the Counter-Strike: Global Offensive loading screen saying that the federal GSG-9 group only has fired shots on five missions throughout their existence. Wikipedia seems to back this up with some reportedly true information[1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSG_9#Publicly_known_missions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSG_9#Publicly_known_missions
- Waterluvian 9y ago
  I wonder if the GSG and other special units see the use of violence as a colossally embarassing failure. "That tactical team couldn't even do their job right and had to resort to shooting the guy."
  - blattimwind 9y ago
    Gunfire means high probability of failure.
asdjasldkjkljd 9y ago
>American cops seem like they're all on a hair trigger to kill at the slightest hint of danger, rather than as a last resort when they're truly threatened. This is generally correct. Police in the US are trained to hit "center mass" so they're less likely to miss and more likely to stop an assailant (I believe the NYPD has a 50% hit rate in a shooting, so police are already missing at least half the time). A lot of the reasoning I've heard from police is along the lines of "we don't know if he's on PCP or something and a shot to the leg won't stop him" which is an utter nonsense way to justify it.
cheschire 9y ago
American police and military are trained to shoot for the largest target area, center of mass, as this is the least likely area to have unintentional results. Some examples of unintentional results are: 1) Missing. 2) Hitting another person. 3) Maming, or otherwise causing grievous injury such as shooting in the leg and hitting an artery on accident when you didn't intend to kill the target.
- DanBC 9y ago
  > Some examples of unintentional results are: 1) Missing. 2) Hitting another person. 3) Maming, or otherwise causing grievous injury such as shooting in the leg and hitting an artery on accident when you didn't intend to kill the target. And these are common in the US, because the number of uses of weapons by police is so high. https://www.popehat.com/2013/12/05/nypd-baby-you-know-we-love-you-why-do-you-make-us-angry-like-that/ https://www.popehat.com/2013/12/05/nypd-baby-you-know-we-lov...
- anigbrowl 9y ago
  The probability of killing someone when you hit them in the center of mass seems a lot higher than that of accidental hits to the femoral artery. Also, surely you've noticed that when American cops shoot someone they usually go on to cuff them but don't make any attempt to administer first aid, so that quite a few people die from bleeding out. At least if you get shot in the leg you've got some chance of stemming the blood flow, plus it's a lot easier to put a tourniquet on that.
  - ams6110 9y ago
    > The probability of killing someone when you hit them in the center of mass seems a lot higher than that of accidental hits to the femoral artery. It is, but American cops are not trained to shoot to incapacitate or warn. If they shoot it is to kill and that is why the target is the center of mass.
anonfunction 9y ago
I've always heard American cops are trained specifically to always shoot to kill.
doktrin 9y ago
As others have said, police in the US are trained to shoot for center mass, and even then they don't have a great track record for accuracy. I don't have the statistics in front of me, but the book 'On Combat' describes several cases where police empty their clips and mainly hit air. Adrenaline is a bitch, but most cops also have (in)famously little actual weapons training and a more robust regimen would undoubtedly help - including but not limited to helping them not discharge their weapons in the first place.

by TillE 9y ago

kipari 9y ago

I remember a tidbit from the Counter-Strike: Global Offensive loading screen saying that the federal GSG-9 group only has fired shots on five missions throughout their existence. Wikipedia seems to back this up with some reportedly true information[1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSG_9#Publicly_known_missions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSG_9#Publicly_known_missions

Waterluvian 9y ago
I wonder if the GSG and other special units see the use of violence as a colossally embarassing failure. "That tactical team couldn't even do their job right and had to resort to shooting the guy."
- blattimwind 9y ago
  Gunfire means high probability of failure.

asdjasldkjkljd 9y ago

>American cops seem like they're all on a hair trigger to kill at the slightest hint of danger, rather than as a last resort when they're truly threatened. This is generally correct. Police in the US are trained to hit "center mass" so they're less likely to miss and more likely to stop an assailant (I believe the NYPD has a 50% hit rate in a shooting, so police are already missing at least half the time). A lot of the reasoning I've heard from police is along the lines of "we don't know if he's on PCP or something and a shot to the leg won't stop him" which is an utter nonsense way to justify it.

cheschire 9y ago

American police and military are trained to shoot for the largest target area, center of mass, as this is the least likely area to have unintentional results. Some examples of unintentional results are: 1) Missing. 2) Hitting another person. 3) Maming, or otherwise causing grievous injury such as shooting in the leg and hitting an artery on accident when you didn't intend to kill the target.

DanBC 9y ago
> Some examples of unintentional results are: 1) Missing. 2) Hitting another person. 3) Maming, or otherwise causing grievous injury such as shooting in the leg and hitting an artery on accident when you didn't intend to kill the target. And these are common in the US, because the number of uses of weapons by police is so high. https://www.popehat.com/2013/12/05/nypd-baby-you-know-we-love-you-why-do-you-make-us-angry-like-that/ https://www.popehat.com/2013/12/05/nypd-baby-you-know-we-lov...
anigbrowl 9y ago
The probability of killing someone when you hit them in the center of mass seems a lot higher than that of accidental hits to the femoral artery. Also, surely you've noticed that when American cops shoot someone they usually go on to cuff them but don't make any attempt to administer first aid, so that quite a few people die from bleeding out. At least if you get shot in the leg you've got some chance of stemming the blood flow, plus it's a lot easier to put a tourniquet on that.
- ams6110 9y ago
  > The probability of killing someone when you hit them in the center of mass seems a lot higher than that of accidental hits to the femoral artery. It is, but American cops are not trained to shoot to incapacitate or warn. If they shoot it is to kill and that is why the target is the center of mass.

anonfunction 9y ago

I've always heard American cops are trained specifically to always shoot to kill.

doktrin 9y ago

As others have said, police in the US are trained to shoot for center mass, and even then they don't have a great track record for accuracy. I don't have the statistics in front of me, but the book 'On Combat' describes several cases where police empty their clips and mainly hit air. Adrenaline is a bitch, but most cops also have (in)famously little actual weapons training and a more robust regimen would undoubtedly help - including but not limited to helping them not discharge their weapons in the first place.