6 ms·

Aside from the fact that there are a steady stream of actual ponzis centered around bitcoin, many new coins and tokens are almost certainly hollow schemes desig

by blunte 9y ago

Aside from the fact that there are a steady stream of actual ponzis centered around bitcoin, many new coins and tokens are almost certainly hollow schemes designed to transfer wealth from the naive to the ICO creators. Then you have the "mining" companies selling shares of mining power, but those sometimes turn out to be pure frauds - no mining nor equipment. Those behave just like ponzis. It is probably in the average person's best interest to avoid it all.

chroem- 9y ago
It's been amusing to watch HN's overwhelmingly negative reaction to cryptocurrencies. Yes, there are absolutely some shady things going on with cryptocoins, but the response to them here seems pretty overblown. What I suspect is that many startup types have sour grapes over how they could have made nearly as much money speculating on digital tokens as they did building their web or app business. It's too bad, since there actually are some interesting technologies beginning to come out of the cryptocurrency sphere. These opportunities will get overlooked by everyone in SV apparently, though.
- anonymous5133 9y ago
  the investors who don't know what they're doing will overlook it and miss out. The skilled investor will always have an open mind and always be willing to at least review interesting projects even if it is cryptocurrency or token based project.
  - QAPereo 9y ago
    And by skilled investors, you mean people with enough capital to manage the insane risk. So skillfull... Besides, let’s wait to heap laurels on investors until after the music stops.
- jacksproit 9y ago
  It’s also amusing to see this straw man argument and rebuttal get posted in almost every single discussion about cryptocurrencies.
  - chroem- 9y ago
    For what it's worth, this is the first time I've seen it. Not sure it's fair to call it a strawman though.
    - thanksgiving 9y ago
      Couldn't we say the same thing about gold? I'm sure if you look far enough, you'll find someone willing to "sell" you gold and hold the gold for you when they don't have the said gold. Or replace gold with US dollars or tulips or Amazon.com stock or whatever. How is this a Bitcoin issue?
      - blunte 9y ago
        This absolutely has been done with gold mining ventures, just as it was done with oil drilling ventures. That's why some regulation on solicitation of investments in crypto currency ventures would be beneficial. It is developing though.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - thisisit 9y ago
      The "sour grapes" and "jealously" has been the go-to explanation, if it can even be call that on each of the cryptocurrency thread.
      - verylittlemeat 9y ago
        Bitcoin is just like any other investment I don't see how people can have "sour grapes" about it. So you knew about bitcoin or even had bitcoins when they were fractions of a cent? So what...most people would have sold when they reached $5 or $10 or $50 thinking they were at the peak.
  - blunte 9y ago
    Look up OneCoin. That is just one of dozens of scams riding on Bitcoin coattails, attracting (greedy/foolish) people, and taking most for a bad ride. Most of these scams have been done in the height of the penny stocks days, and the SEC has (or had in the past) put a lot of effort into protecting less saavy investors. Lastly, I work for a client in this space. My client is doing a legit business, but we constantly deal with customers who have made and lost money in dozens of these ponzis over the last couple of years.
- juicyfroot 9y ago
  This. It is almost as if Hacker News is techno-luddite. Anyone who's paying attention knows that this is revolutionary technology. There is only the bitcoin protocol that is the main innovation here. You can change coin supply, change POW algorithm, change the block time, etc but it is still "bitcoin". Once you understand that, then you can imagine where this is all heading
- brucephillips 9y ago
  Perhaps you could point out specifically what GP is wrong about, rather than using vague flourishes like "overblown" and "sour grapes".
- noncoml 9y ago
  > It's been amusing to watch HN's overwhelmingly negative reaction to cryptocurrencies Not all cryptocurrencies. Only the ones with "intrinsic value". Just because I print pieces of paper in my basement, doesn't mean that there is an intrinsic value in them. > It's too bad, since there actually are some interesting technologies beginning to come out of the cryptocurrency sphere 100% agree with this. There are some interesting ideas and technologies. > What I suspect is that many startup types have sour grapes over how they could have made nearly as much money speculating on digital tokens as they did building their web or app business I can only speak for myself: No. No sour grapes. Since day 1 I thought Bitcoin was a pyramid/Ponzi kind of scheme. I would never have taken part in such a system.
  - brucephillips 9y ago
    > Not all cryptocurrencies. But the one with "intrinsic value". Just because I print pieces of paper in my basement, doesn't mean that there is an intrinsic value in them. Basement paper doesn't have a guaranteed fixed supply.
  - tambienben 9y ago
    >Since day 1 I thought Bitcoin was a pyramid/Ponzi kind of scheme. So, how well do you actually understand it?
    - noncoml 9y ago
      Not sure what you are trying to do by taking a sentence out of context. > No. No sour grapes. Since day 1 I thought Bitcoin was a pyramid/Ponzi kind of scheme. I would never have taken part in such a system. The point of the paragraph was to show that it is not sour grapes as suggested.
      - tambienben 9y ago
        Not sure why you would avoid a still relevant question.
        9y ago
anonymous5133 9y ago
That's like saying people shouldn't buy stocks because penny stocks are very high risk. The real answer is the same with all investments: do your due diligence to know and understand what you are buying/investing in.
- blunte 9y ago
  There is an extra sprinkle of technology magic dust that seems to make many otherwise reasonable (non-technical) people believe absurd claims and make uncharacteristically bad decisions.
  - xiphias 9y ago
    Tech is growing much faster than other industries, and it's one of the biggest industries already. Non-tech people who don't invest in tech will be left out. Of course the best for them would be to understand the technologies, but not everybody is willing to spend the time for that.
ksutariya 9y ago
The problem in India is that everyone looks around and sees what industry is making the most money and jumps in there. I know a ton of people who have switched from textile to diamonds to construction and so on because their friend is doing well in that industry. Similarly, now a large number of actual ponzi schemes have come up in this space (Bitconnect, Dekado, etc) and if you look at their websites it is very easy to tell (Dekado claims to use arbitrage buoyancy software to generate 1.5%+ return per day). The problem is logic doesn't apply here when your friend has made XYZ dollars in that coin. Greed gets the better of you and you invest knowing that it is not possible.

by blunte 9y ago

chroem- 9y ago

It's been amusing to watch HN's overwhelmingly negative reaction to cryptocurrencies. Yes, there are absolutely some shady things going on with cryptocoins, but the response to them here seems pretty overblown. What I suspect is that many startup types have sour grapes over how they could have made nearly as much money speculating on digital tokens as they did building their web or app business. It's too bad, since there actually are some interesting technologies beginning to come out of the cryptocurrency sphere. These opportunities will get overlooked by everyone in SV apparently, though.

anonymous5133 9y ago
the investors who don't know what they're doing will overlook it and miss out. The skilled investor will always have an open mind and always be willing to at least review interesting projects even if it is cryptocurrency or token based project.
- QAPereo 9y ago
  And by skilled investors, you mean people with enough capital to manage the insane risk. So skillfull... Besides, let’s wait to heap laurels on investors until after the music stops.
jacksproit 9y ago
It’s also amusing to see this straw man argument and rebuttal get posted in almost every single discussion about cryptocurrencies.
- chroem- 9y ago
  For what it's worth, this is the first time I've seen it. Not sure it's fair to call it a strawman though.
  - thanksgiving 9y ago
    Couldn't we say the same thing about gold? I'm sure if you look far enough, you'll find someone willing to "sell" you gold and hold the gold for you when they don't have the said gold. Or replace gold with US dollars or tulips or Amazon.com stock or whatever. How is this a Bitcoin issue?
    - blunte 9y ago
      This absolutely has been done with gold mining ventures, just as it was done with oil drilling ventures. That's why some regulation on solicitation of investments in crypto currency ventures would be beneficial. It is developing though.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - thisisit 9y ago
    The "sour grapes" and "jealously" has been the go-to explanation, if it can even be call that on each of the cryptocurrency thread.
    - verylittlemeat 9y ago
      Bitcoin is just like any other investment I don't see how people can have "sour grapes" about it. So you knew about bitcoin or even had bitcoins when they were fractions of a cent? So what...most people would have sold when they reached $5 or $10 or $50 thinking they were at the peak.
- blunte 9y ago
  Look up OneCoin. That is just one of dozens of scams riding on Bitcoin coattails, attracting (greedy/foolish) people, and taking most for a bad ride. Most of these scams have been done in the height of the penny stocks days, and the SEC has (or had in the past) put a lot of effort into protecting less saavy investors. Lastly, I work for a client in this space. My client is doing a legit business, but we constantly deal with customers who have made and lost money in dozens of these ponzis over the last couple of years.
juicyfroot 9y ago
This. It is almost as if Hacker News is techno-luddite. Anyone who's paying attention knows that this is revolutionary technology. There is only the bitcoin protocol that is the main innovation here. You can change coin supply, change POW algorithm, change the block time, etc but it is still "bitcoin". Once you understand that, then you can imagine where this is all heading
brucephillips 9y ago
Perhaps you could point out specifically what GP is wrong about, rather than using vague flourishes like "overblown" and "sour grapes".
noncoml 9y ago
> It's been amusing to watch HN's overwhelmingly negative reaction to cryptocurrencies Not all cryptocurrencies. Only the ones with "intrinsic value". Just because I print pieces of paper in my basement, doesn't mean that there is an intrinsic value in them. > It's too bad, since there actually are some interesting technologies beginning to come out of the cryptocurrency sphere 100% agree with this. There are some interesting ideas and technologies. > What I suspect is that many startup types have sour grapes over how they could have made nearly as much money speculating on digital tokens as they did building their web or app business I can only speak for myself: No. No sour grapes. Since day 1 I thought Bitcoin was a pyramid/Ponzi kind of scheme. I would never have taken part in such a system.
- brucephillips 9y ago
  > Not all cryptocurrencies. But the one with "intrinsic value". Just because I print pieces of paper in my basement, doesn't mean that there is an intrinsic value in them. Basement paper doesn't have a guaranteed fixed supply.
- tambienben 9y ago
  >Since day 1 I thought Bitcoin was a pyramid/Ponzi kind of scheme. So, how well do you actually understand it?
  - noncoml 9y ago
    Not sure what you are trying to do by taking a sentence out of context. > No. No sour grapes. Since day 1 I thought Bitcoin was a pyramid/Ponzi kind of scheme. I would never have taken part in such a system. The point of the paragraph was to show that it is not sour grapes as suggested.
    - tambienben 9y ago
      Not sure why you would avoid a still relevant question.
      - 9y ago

anonymous5133 9y ago

That's like saying people shouldn't buy stocks because penny stocks are very high risk. The real answer is the same with all investments: do your due diligence to know and understand what you are buying/investing in.

blunte 9y ago
There is an extra sprinkle of technology magic dust that seems to make many otherwise reasonable (non-technical) people believe absurd claims and make uncharacteristically bad decisions.
- xiphias 9y ago
  Tech is growing much faster than other industries, and it's one of the biggest industries already. Non-tech people who don't invest in tech will be left out. Of course the best for them would be to understand the technologies, but not everybody is willing to spend the time for that.

ksutariya 9y ago

The problem in India is that everyone looks around and sees what industry is making the most money and jumps in there. I know a ton of people who have switched from textile to diamonds to construction and so on because their friend is doing well in that industry. Similarly, now a large number of actual ponzi schemes have come up in this space (Bitconnect, Dekado, etc) and if you look at their websites it is very easy to tell (Dekado claims to use arbitrage buoyancy software to generate 1.5%+ return per day). The problem is logic doesn't apply here when your friend has made XYZ dollars in that coin. Greed gets the better of you and you invest knowing that it is not possible.