4 ms·

You don't have to use corporate sites like Facebook and Pinterest. Check out scuttlebutt.nz for a serverless alternative, or Mastodon for one where anybody can

by en-us 9y ago

You don't have to use corporate sites like Facebook and Pinterest. Check out scuttlebutt.nz for a serverless alternative, or Mastodon for one where anybody can host a server. Or just stick to forums and IRC.

throwanem 9y ago
No, you don't have to. But if everyone you know does, then you have to make a choice. I've had the same "just get on Facebook" experience as the article's author, and it isn't just about "what are we doing this weekend?" It's about human social behavior changing to fit the model implemented by Facebook, because Facebook tries so hard, and so successfully, to be sticky, that eventually everyone is on Facebook. If you're not, then once that's happened, you're no longer part of "everyone", because Facebook's design very successfully seeks to maximize the degree to which people prefer it as an exclusive medium of social interaction, because that's the same as maximizing its revenue stream. The people who run Facebook, and who build it, have by now gotten very, very good at doing exactly that. And their userbase is such that, whatever adverse effects their model of revenue maximization by social behavior monopolization may have, it is by now having them on about one-third of the entire human species. If we include all the other behemoths which use similar models, the fraction of humanity affected grows markedly - half? More? Yeah, I know, it sounds absurd and dystopian and like something you'd hear from an ideologue of the RMS stripe. Well, I have my differences with RMS, and we've had them out in public before now. And I'd have regarded the things I'm saying as dismissively as anyone might, if I'd heard someone saying them a few years ago. But that would've been a few years ago. Times change. It was around the time I missed the second wedding, followed by the second chance encounter with one of the parties thereto, and the second heartfelt apology, and the second "but you should really get on Facebook", that I started to really think something was up other than that everyone had just quietly and comprehensively dropped me, over the space of a few months, because I was just that unpleasant a person to have around. Sure, that was my default assumption. But it would seem unlikely in that case for the apologies to be so heartfelt, or indeed to occur at all; they needn't have, no more than the entire conversations in which they occurred, if those who made them hadn't chosen to engage when they saw me out and about. They could've quietly walked the other way. Instead they hailed me and started conversations, in order to apologize for having unintentionally snubbed me, and to warn me I'd better get on Facebook if I didn't want more of the same. So I had to think something else was up, something outside my own constant suspicion that I exist in the world purely on sufferance and should not be too surprised when that sufferance ceases - and I started looking around for what it might be. What I found was other people who'd had the same kinds of experiences that led me to start looking in the first place. People like the author of this article, who'd also watched their social circles disintegrate around them, and be reconstituted in a form which did no longer include them, in order to make a lot of money for a dozen or so thousand people mostly in California. Now I've got no problem with people making a lot of money. This is America, after all. And I don't think anyone who works for Facebook is evil, at least not in any higher proportion than the population at large; you get a few bastards in every hundred, sure, but there's no reason to imagine Facebook uniquely concentrates them somehow. But none of that changes the fact that, in the cause of building something that makes those people a lot of money, they have produced a machine for the deliberate mass modification of human social behavior, the like of which history has never yet seen. I don't know. I feel like there's nothing unreasonable in thinking such a situation has implications a bit beyond "well you don't have to use it". Maybe I'm wrong about that. Maybe I really am the problem here, and Facebook is just a bugaboo. Maybe that's true for everyone else with a story like mine, too. But what if it isn't? Wouldn't that seem a little dystopian to you, there being a website in a position to mediate your friendships? It seems a little dystopian to me.
- en-us 9y ago
  I understand where you're coming from, but ultimately it is your decision to stay on Facebook. If you ever want to try something different then try Scuttlebutt. All of your data there is stored in your own blockchain, and then you exchange these blockchains with others. There is no central server or identification authority. The UI is very much in an alpha state but the SSB protocol is solid, so the blockchain itself will outlive any particular UI version. It might actually be able to scale without having a central authority run it, which gives a glimpse of a future without Facebook.
  - throwanem 9y ago
    Every time I talk about this, people assume I'm on Facebook. Why is it that, every time I talk about this, people assume I'm on Facebook? I talked about this and you assumed I'm on Facebook, so you should be able to explain at least one reason why, every time I talk about this, people assume I'm on Facebook.
    - ohtwenty 9y ago
      Because everyone is. I quit Facebook for a year or two, trying to get people to email or WhatsApp or whatever. didn't work. So I lived with people closer to me reaching out to my SO through Facebook, or sending messages in another way. I eventually made an account again because there were instances where an alternative solution was too much of a pita. So I now check every other week, respond to messages when I have time, and ignore the rest. I think I've posted one thing in the past year. Still trying to get people to contact me through WhatsApp or signal, which works really well for the NL (>95% have wa), but not so much for international friends. I mostly don't get the drive, the need to post mundane things on there. I just can't get myself to believe anyone will care that I took a picture of me eating lunch, or whatever.

by en-us 9y ago

throwanem 9y ago

No, you don't have to. But if everyone you know does, then you have to make a choice. I've had the same "just get on Facebook" experience as the article's author, and it isn't just about "what are we doing this weekend?" It's about human social behavior changing to fit the model implemented by Facebook, because Facebook tries so hard, and so successfully, to be sticky, that eventually everyone is on Facebook. If you're not, then once that's happened, you're no longer part of "everyone", because Facebook's design very successfully seeks to maximize the degree to which people prefer it as an exclusive medium of social interaction, because that's the same as maximizing its revenue stream. The people who run Facebook, and who build it, have by now gotten very, very good at doing exactly that. And their userbase is such that, whatever adverse effects their model of revenue maximization by social behavior monopolization may have, it is by now having them on about one-third of the entire human species. If we include all the other behemoths which use similar models, the fraction of humanity affected grows markedly - half? More? Yeah, I know, it sounds absurd and dystopian and like something you'd hear from an ideologue of the RMS stripe. Well, I have my differences with RMS, and we've had them out in public before now. And I'd have regarded the things I'm saying as dismissively as anyone might, if I'd heard someone saying them a few years ago. But that would've been a few years ago. Times change. It was around the time I missed the second wedding, followed by the second chance encounter with one of the parties thereto, and the second heartfelt apology, and the second "but you should really get on Facebook", that I started to really think something was up other than that everyone had just quietly and comprehensively dropped me, over the space of a few months, because I was just that unpleasant a person to have around. Sure, that was my default assumption. But it would seem unlikely in that case for the apologies to be so heartfelt, or indeed to occur at all; they needn't have, no more than the entire conversations in which they occurred, if those who made them hadn't chosen to engage when they saw me out and about. They could've quietly walked the other way. Instead they hailed me and started conversations, in order to apologize for having unintentionally snubbed me, and to warn me I'd better get on Facebook if I didn't want more of the same. So I had to think something else was up, something outside my own constant suspicion that I exist in the world purely on sufferance and should not be too surprised when that sufferance ceases - and I started looking around for what it might be. What I found was other people who'd had the same kinds of experiences that led me to start looking in the first place. People like the author of this article, who'd also watched their social circles disintegrate around them, and be reconstituted in a form which did no longer include them, in order to make a lot of money for a dozen or so thousand people mostly in California. Now I've got no problem with people making a lot of money. This is America, after all. And I don't think anyone who works for Facebook is evil, at least not in any higher proportion than the population at large; you get a few bastards in every hundred, sure, but there's no reason to imagine Facebook uniquely concentrates them somehow. But none of that changes the fact that, in the cause of building something that makes those people a lot of money, they have produced a machine for the deliberate mass modification of human social behavior, the like of which history has never yet seen. I don't know. I feel like there's nothing unreasonable in thinking such a situation has implications a bit beyond "well you don't have to use it". Maybe I'm wrong about that. Maybe I really am the problem here, and Facebook is just a bugaboo. Maybe that's true for everyone else with a story like mine, too. But what if it isn't? Wouldn't that seem a little dystopian to you, there being a website in a position to mediate your friendships? It seems a little dystopian to me.

en-us 9y ago
I understand where you're coming from, but ultimately it is your decision to stay on Facebook. If you ever want to try something different then try Scuttlebutt. All of your data there is stored in your own blockchain, and then you exchange these blockchains with others. There is no central server or identification authority. The UI is very much in an alpha state but the SSB protocol is solid, so the blockchain itself will outlive any particular UI version. It might actually be able to scale without having a central authority run it, which gives a glimpse of a future without Facebook.
- throwanem 9y ago
  Every time I talk about this, people assume I'm on Facebook. Why is it that, every time I talk about this, people assume I'm on Facebook? I talked about this and you assumed I'm on Facebook, so you should be able to explain at least one reason why, every time I talk about this, people assume I'm on Facebook.
  - ohtwenty 9y ago
    Because everyone is. I quit Facebook for a year or two, trying to get people to email or WhatsApp or whatever. didn't work. So I lived with people closer to me reaching out to my SO through Facebook, or sending messages in another way. I eventually made an account again because there were instances where an alternative solution was too much of a pita. So I now check every other week, respond to messages when I have time, and ignore the rest. I think I've posted one thing in the past year. Still trying to get people to contact me through WhatsApp or signal, which works really well for the NL (>95% have wa), but not so much for international friends. I mostly don't get the drive, the need to post mundane things on there. I just can't get myself to believe anyone will care that I took a picture of me eating lunch, or whatever.