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Just a side note, because you’re from Norway, that may be surprising to some. The US is #1 with 1.01 guns per capita, and Norway is #9 with .31 guns per capita.

Just a side note, because you’re from Norway, that may be surprising to some. The US is #1 with 1.01 guns per capita, and Norway is #9 with .31 guns per capita. In any case, i don’t think the number of guns per capita explains the difference in gun crime rates between the two. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_guns_per...

dopamean 9y ago
You're absolutely right. The difference is that we are a more violent society. Violence is something we value here. Just look at entertainment for children. You're way more likely to find parents more amenable to letting their children watch scenes of people being hurt than people making love. One gets a pass and the other is considered obscene.
- analog31 9y ago
  Indeed, I was at an activity with my son, and there was a TV in the lounge, showing a cartoon program. The program involved an evil scheming person trying to take over the world, and culminated in a literal war, with cartoon soldiers, guns, tanks, and so forth, killing one another.
- adrianN 9y ago
  I don't think that's uniquely American. As a child I consumed plenty of violent media (mostly American, in fact!) but in my country very few people get shot.
  - sago 9y ago
    I think most of us would agree here that "violent media creates violent people" is false. But violent media can still be a problem, if it is caused and enabled by a pathological society, a symptom of that pathology. I personally think it is, and I think that's the point the post you were responding to was making. I don't think it is any coincidence that most of the violent gun-laden media you consumed as a child was American. Killing is a* fundamental problem-solving strategy in American culture (both domestically consumed and exported). And the overwhelming most common method of killing is a gun. This is why it is very rare to find a film or TV show with any kind of action/adventure/thriller/crime/mystery plot without guns, usually on the poster. When this is true in other countries, it is usually because they are intentionally aping American media. I think it has never occurred to most Americans that there is any alternative to 'kill the bad guys'. * On reflection it is probably 'the' fundamental problem-solving strategy in American media.
lb1lf 9y ago
The difference is very pronounced in the kind of weapons we have, though - the average Norwegian gun is a 12 gauge shotgun or a 6.5x55 rifle. Handguns are strictly regulated - in order to obtain one, you need to have a clean record, be an active member in good standing of a gun club - and you can only carry your weapon - dismantled - between your home and the shooting range; keeping it in, say, the glove compartment is likely to result in a fine and having your gun licence revoked. For deer during hunting season, though, Norway is a place best avoided.
masklinn 9y ago
> Just a side note, because you’re from Norway, that may be surprising to some. The US is #1 with 1.01 guns per capita, and Norway is #9 with .31 guns per capita. Being from #10 on that list, the type, quality and "outings" of guns matters a lot. In France, "owned guns" are either sport or hunting weapons, seeing one outside of hunting season basically does not happen and they're regulated: * single-shot (per barrel) smooth bore long guns must be registered (for hunting or sports), buying requires showing an ID and either a hunting or a sports license (from an accredited gun club) * air guns beyond 20j and various types of long runs replace the registering by a declaration (a more complex procedure) * various more powerful and smaller weapons (including handguns) have to be authorised before they can be bought, for sports or defence (mostly professional). Amongst other concerns the would-be owner must have a clean criminal record, show a clean bill of health (physical & psych) under 1 month old and demonstrate ownership of a safe * automatic, high-capacity (30 for long guns and 20 for handguns) and very-high caliber (>= 20mm) is forbidden Guns must be disabled or under lock when not heading to, coming back from, or performing the activity they're used for. I expect Norway, Finland, Canada or Germany are very similar: though specifics probably vary, weapons ownership is most likely regulated and generally restricted to hunting and sports (the licensed, olympics-able "Shooting Sports" kind, not the "I went at the range to play with a minigun" kind).
- varjag 9y ago
  In Norway, reservists can keep their assault rifles home. Once a guy in our neighbourhood decided to clean his AG-3 on the porch, triggering armed police response in the area. This being Norway of course, no shots were fired and the situation cleared up. Otherwise, you can buy pretty much anything non-automatic when you have a hunting or sports license. Neither is hard to obtain. The circulation is regulated but still quite simple. You can even sell a gun over post with cash on delivery.
  - lb1lf 9y ago
    -Reservists and the home guard no longer store weapons or ammunition at home; that practice ended a few years ago as the AG3 (HK G3 made under licence in Norway) was the weapon of choice for reservists to kill their spouses, then themselves (what we call honor killings when committed by non-native Norwegians) Additionally, it was no secret who was a member of the home guard, so there were numerous cases of homes being burglarised for the AG3 stored there; the weapon was then used for further crimes, like bank robberies. Now, weapons are stored at the home guard's places of assembly in case of mobilization. Also, while I agree that it is no problem obtaining a hunting rifle or a shotgun (passing the test isn't THAT hard), a handgun is more complicated: a) You need to have a clean criminal record, and be more than 21 years of age. Also, the local police must approve - say, it is (theoretically, at least) possible to be turned down even with no record if the local police do not think you are suited to own a weapon - say, if you regularly binge drink, are known locally as a trouble-maker or whatever. b) You must have completed a safety course at an approved gun club. Typically 3-4 nights, intended to learn you how to handle the gun safely, know and follow shooting range regulations &c. c) You must be an active member of an approved gun club, and must have been so for at least six months prior to applying for a purchase permit. Active basically means turning up at club events and shooting with one of the club's weapons until you have your own. d) Yout licence may be revoked if you no longer have a need to own a weapon - say, if you stop showing up at club nights and let your membership lapse. Also, any problems with the law? Better take a good, hard look at that licence, because it will be revoked as soon as they get around to it. e) You normally only get a permit for one weapon, unless you can lay credible claim to being a collector (in which case even more training and vetting is mandatory).

dopamean 9y ago

You're absolutely right. The difference is that we are a more violent society. Violence is something we value here. Just look at entertainment for children. You're way more likely to find parents more amenable to letting their children watch scenes of people being hurt than people making love. One gets a pass and the other is considered obscene.

analog31 9y ago
Indeed, I was at an activity with my son, and there was a TV in the lounge, showing a cartoon program. The program involved an evil scheming person trying to take over the world, and culminated in a literal war, with cartoon soldiers, guns, tanks, and so forth, killing one another.
adrianN 9y ago
I don't think that's uniquely American. As a child I consumed plenty of violent media (mostly American, in fact!) but in my country very few people get shot.
- sago 9y ago
  I think most of us would agree here that "violent media creates violent people" is false. But violent media can still be a problem, if it is caused and enabled by a pathological society, a symptom of that pathology. I personally think it is, and I think that's the point the post you were responding to was making. I don't think it is any coincidence that most of the violent gun-laden media you consumed as a child was American. Killing is a* fundamental problem-solving strategy in American culture (both domestically consumed and exported). And the overwhelming most common method of killing is a gun. This is why it is very rare to find a film or TV show with any kind of action/adventure/thriller/crime/mystery plot without guns, usually on the poster. When this is true in other countries, it is usually because they are intentionally aping American media. I think it has never occurred to most Americans that there is any alternative to 'kill the bad guys'. * On reflection it is probably 'the' fundamental problem-solving strategy in American media.

lb1lf 9y ago

The difference is very pronounced in the kind of weapons we have, though - the average Norwegian gun is a 12 gauge shotgun or a 6.5x55 rifle. Handguns are strictly regulated - in order to obtain one, you need to have a clean record, be an active member in good standing of a gun club - and you can only carry your weapon - dismantled - between your home and the shooting range; keeping it in, say, the glove compartment is likely to result in a fine and having your gun licence revoked. For deer during hunting season, though, Norway is a place best avoided.

masklinn 9y ago

> Just a side note, because you’re from Norway, that may be surprising to some. The US is #1 with 1.01 guns per capita, and Norway is #9 with .31 guns per capita. Being from #10 on that list, the type, quality and "outings" of guns matters a lot. In France, "owned guns" are either sport or hunting weapons, seeing one outside of hunting season basically does not happen and they're regulated: * single-shot (per barrel) smooth bore long guns must be registered (for hunting or sports), buying requires showing an ID and either a hunting or a sports license (from an accredited gun club) * air guns beyond 20j and various types of long runs replace the registering by a declaration (a more complex procedure) * various more powerful and smaller weapons (including handguns) have to be authorised before they can be bought, for sports or defence (mostly professional). Amongst other concerns the would-be owner must have a clean criminal record, show a clean bill of health (physical & psych) under 1 month old and demonstrate ownership of a safe * automatic, high-capacity (30 for long guns and 20 for handguns) and very-high caliber (>= 20mm) is forbidden Guns must be disabled or under lock when not heading to, coming back from, or performing the activity they're used for. I expect Norway, Finland, Canada or Germany are very similar: though specifics probably vary, weapons ownership is most likely regulated and generally restricted to hunting and sports (the licensed, olympics-able "Shooting Sports" kind, not the "I went at the range to play with a minigun" kind).

varjag 9y ago
In Norway, reservists can keep their assault rifles home. Once a guy in our neighbourhood decided to clean his AG-3 on the porch, triggering armed police response in the area. This being Norway of course, no shots were fired and the situation cleared up. Otherwise, you can buy pretty much anything non-automatic when you have a hunting or sports license. Neither is hard to obtain. The circulation is regulated but still quite simple. You can even sell a gun over post with cash on delivery.
- lb1lf 9y ago
  -Reservists and the home guard no longer store weapons or ammunition at home; that practice ended a few years ago as the AG3 (HK G3 made under licence in Norway) was the weapon of choice for reservists to kill their spouses, then themselves (what we call honor killings when committed by non-native Norwegians) Additionally, it was no secret who was a member of the home guard, so there were numerous cases of homes being burglarised for the AG3 stored there; the weapon was then used for further crimes, like bank robberies. Now, weapons are stored at the home guard's places of assembly in case of mobilization. Also, while I agree that it is no problem obtaining a hunting rifle or a shotgun (passing the test isn't THAT hard), a handgun is more complicated: a) You need to have a clean criminal record, and be more than 21 years of age. Also, the local police must approve - say, it is (theoretically, at least) possible to be turned down even with no record if the local police do not think you are suited to own a weapon - say, if you regularly binge drink, are known locally as a trouble-maker or whatever. b) You must have completed a safety course at an approved gun club. Typically 3-4 nights, intended to learn you how to handle the gun safely, know and follow shooting range regulations &c. c) You must be an active member of an approved gun club, and must have been so for at least six months prior to applying for a purchase permit. Active basically means turning up at club events and shooting with one of the club's weapons until you have your own. d) Yout licence may be revoked if you no longer have a need to own a weapon - say, if you stop showing up at club nights and let your membership lapse. Also, any problems with the law? Better take a good, hard look at that licence, because it will be revoked as soon as they get around to it. e) You normally only get a permit for one weapon, unless you can lay credible claim to being a collector (in which case even more training and vetting is mandatory).