4 ms·

Capitalism is actually currently ending the world hunger because trickle-down effects actually exist. Living standards are rising globally incredibly quickly. M

by tqdm 9y ago

Capitalism is actually currently ending the world hunger because trickle-down effects actually exist. Living standards are rising globally incredibly quickly. Middle-class kids in Jordan are playing Diabolo 3 on their computers despite the region having almost no natural resources, almost no water and despite it being troubled by Syrian refugees. Yes, capitalism needs regulation, but it is a lie to say that the entire approach is doomed to be a race to the bottom.

platz 9y ago
This is an experiment with 1 trial. What evidence do you have that another system with the same technological advances would not produce the same or better living standards? (none!)
- gaius 9y ago
  East vs West Germany, North vs South Korea, even Cuba vs Florida. There have been plenty of experiments.
  - perl4ever 9y ago
    China vs. Taiwan and Hong Kong.
    - gaius 9y ago
      Until China went state-capitalist Hong Kong’s economy was one-sixth the size of China’s for 1/200th of the population. Now it’s 2-3%...
      - platz 9y ago
        Another system != Statist communists, categorically
fabianhjr 9y ago
> Capitalism is actually currently ending the world hunger There are a ton of efforts, both from state-actors[1], NGOs[2] and individuals, seeking to eradicate extreme poverty worldwide. It is not apparent that it is "fixing itself with capitalism" or that any of the previous actors think it is going to happen. > trickle-down effects actually exist Citation Needed because trickle-down economics has been shown to increase inequality and not increase the quality of life for those in poverty. > Yes, capitalism needs regulation, but it is a lie to say that the entire approach is doomed to be a race to the bottom. Why is it a lie? [1]: http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/development/data/oecd-international-development-statistics/oda-official-development-assistance-disbursements_data-00069-en http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/development/data/oecd-internati... [2]: https://data.oecd.org/drf/grants-by-private-agencies-and-ngos.htm https://data.oecd.org/drf/grants-by-private-agencies-and-ngo...
YeGoblynQueenne 9y ago
>> Middle-class kids in Jordan are playing Diabolo 3 on their computers despite the region having almost no natural resources, almost no water and despite it being troubled by Syrian refugees. That's interesting, but what is the proportion of middle-class individuals to the rest of the population, in Jordan? If there's 100 kids able to play Diablo 3 in Jordan, while every other kid their age can't afford a computer, then Diablo 3 is not a very useful metric of anything. Jordan is one of the richest countries in the region btw.
Fnoord 9y ago
Capitalism needs all kind of patches/bandaids in order to function, and even then it won't function for all. The Kuznets Curve (as mentioned in this article [1] about the doughnut economy) shows the vast amount of inequality in rich countries. Not so much for the general readership of HN (ie. I am arguing the readership is biased). I fundamentally disagree with a left-right x-axis; we're missing out on authoritative-liberty. Hence politicalcompass.org provides a better framework. Some of these bandaids are authoritarian, some are liberal. For example, trademarks, patents, copyright each grant power to one or more individuals (ie. a minority) over a vast majority. Here, the free market is being regulated by the government. We consider it part of capitalism. [1] https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/04/the-new-economic-model-that-could-end-inequality-doughnut https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/04/the-new-economic-mode...

by tqdm 9y ago

platz 9y ago

This is an experiment with 1 trial. What evidence do you have that another system with the same technological advances would not produce the same or better living standards? (none!)

gaius 9y ago
East vs West Germany, North vs South Korea, even Cuba vs Florida. There have been plenty of experiments.
- perl4ever 9y ago
  China vs. Taiwan and Hong Kong.
  - gaius 9y ago
    Until China went state-capitalist Hong Kong’s economy was one-sixth the size of China’s for 1/200th of the population. Now it’s 2-3%...
    - platz 9y ago
      Another system != Statist communists, categorically

fabianhjr 9y ago

> Capitalism is actually currently ending the world hunger There are a ton of efforts, both from state-actors[1], NGOs[2] and individuals, seeking to eradicate extreme poverty worldwide. It is not apparent that it is "fixing itself with capitalism" or that any of the previous actors think it is going to happen. > trickle-down effects actually exist Citation Needed because trickle-down economics has been shown to increase inequality and not increase the quality of life for those in poverty. > Yes, capitalism needs regulation, but it is a lie to say that the entire approach is doomed to be a race to the bottom. Why is it a lie? [1]: http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/development/data/oecd-international-development-statistics/oda-official-development-assistance-disbursements_data-00069-en http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/development/data/oecd-internati... [2]: https://data.oecd.org/drf/grants-by-private-agencies-and-ngos.htm https://data.oecd.org/drf/grants-by-private-agencies-and-ngo...

YeGoblynQueenne 9y ago

>> Middle-class kids in Jordan are playing Diabolo 3 on their computers despite the region having almost no natural resources, almost no water and despite it being troubled by Syrian refugees. That's interesting, but what is the proportion of middle-class individuals to the rest of the population, in Jordan? If there's 100 kids able to play Diablo 3 in Jordan, while every other kid their age can't afford a computer, then Diablo 3 is not a very useful metric of anything. Jordan is one of the richest countries in the region btw.

Fnoord 9y ago

Capitalism needs all kind of patches/bandaids in order to function, and even then it won't function for all. The Kuznets Curve (as mentioned in this article [1] about the doughnut economy) shows the vast amount of inequality in rich countries. Not so much for the general readership of HN (ie. I am arguing the readership is biased). I fundamentally disagree with a left-right x-axis; we're missing out on authoritative-liberty. Hence politicalcompass.org provides a better framework. Some of these bandaids are authoritarian, some are liberal. For example, trademarks, patents, copyright each grant power to one or more individuals (ie. a minority) over a vast majority. Here, the free market is being regulated by the government. We consider it part of capitalism. [1] https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/04/the-new-economic-model-that-could-end-inequality-doughnut https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/04/the-new-economic-mode...