5 ms·

Interestingly, in the UK utilities are using GSM SIM cards in Smart Meters, and a mixture of SMS and data to monitor/send electricity usage.

SergeAx 9y ago
Those smart meters should be outrageously expensive both in production and running. Are utilities government-sponsored in UK?
- matthewmacleod 9y ago
  They’re not. I’m confused why you think this would be particularly expensive, though; the components aren’t that expensive, and neither is data service for the minimal data the meter will send. I would imagine it’s more expensive than a PLC or general radio solution, but on the other hand it’s got the benefit of requiring minimal new infrastructure.
  - SergeAx 9y ago
    GSM assembly with SIM holder costs about $5 in a mass-production-wise quantities. I don't know about UK, but here in Russia typical "dumb" resource meter costs between 10 and 30 USD. Smart meter could not be more than 2x expensive to be competitive. So you should squeeze all other functionality into $5 production cost just to have zero margin, and you should completely forget about autonomy. And I don't even want to start ranting about running costs of GSM. This is what LPWAN like LoRa, Sigfox, NbIoT and Nwave are made for.
    - matthewmacleod 9y ago
      You’re ignoring the marginal cost of requiring meter reads with dumb meters, though, let alone any other benefits that the meter might offer. I agree that the WAN tech is perhaps more suitable in theory, but that ignores the fact that there is already a ubiquitous GSM network in place.
      - SergeAx 9y ago
        Hope UK has 100% GSM coverage, otherwise you have to set up brand new GSM cell to read meters from a remote village, which is 1000-10000 times more expensive than LPWAN base station with active signal amplifier and/or relay station. Pulled a feat like that in Siberia just two days ago)
        krzyk 9y ago
        I would expect such country like UK to have 100% GSM coverage (e.g. Poland has 100%) - it is quite densely populated - with 2G it is quite easy considering that the meters are installed usually where people live == need GSM coverage.
        SergeAx 9y ago
        I believe you mean "100% of inhabited Poland", and even then you may be wrong. Check this map: https://www.nperf.com/en/map/PL/-/-/signal/ https://www.nperf.com/en/map/PL/-/-/signal/ - there are plenty of spaces with gray "no coverage" dots for every operator. The problem is when you have bad GSM coverage in some unfortunate spot even in a big city - you may just can't solve it. And, by the way, there's a habit to place utility meters in basements, where GSM coverage is much worse.
      - zzzcpan 9y ago
        GSM network can be used to aggregate data from cheaper devices near by. Putting GSM into every device is somewhat silly. But well, there is always a "preference" to solutions offered by certain companies no matter the cost.
  - gh02t 9y ago
    Considering the alternative is employing a person who has to go around and read every meter versus the very low cost of a GSM radio I think it very clearly makes sense cost wise.
    - SergeAx 9y ago
      The alternative is to use more appropriate tech for once-a-day/once-an-hour tiny data transfer, like LPWAN. Maybe NFC-like tech, when the host device is installed in a car, which drives around the block once a day/week.
      - gh02t 9y ago
        I agree, LPWAN is a better solution and this is almost exactly its raison d'etre, but the cost isn't really that much more. They're basically using GSM as an LPWAN substitute. GSM radios cost peanuts and the data costs would be pretty low since they don't need to transmit a lot. Plus, low power isn't that important since these devices are connected to mains. > Maybe NFC-like tech, when the host device is installed in a car, which drives around the block once a day/week. This is how my meter works (in the US) and is the same as described in the article. The meter broadcasts on the ISM band every few seconds and somebody in a car drives by while a scanning device records. Still faster than having somebody on foot walking around but I can't help but think a hub system like LoRaWAN might work better, so that no person has to go out on patrol.

SergeAx 9y ago

Those smart meters should be outrageously expensive both in production and running. Are utilities government-sponsored in UK?

matthewmacleod 9y ago
They’re not. I’m confused why you think this would be particularly expensive, though; the components aren’t that expensive, and neither is data service for the minimal data the meter will send. I would imagine it’s more expensive than a PLC or general radio solution, but on the other hand it’s got the benefit of requiring minimal new infrastructure.
- SergeAx 9y ago
  GSM assembly with SIM holder costs about $5 in a mass-production-wise quantities. I don't know about UK, but here in Russia typical "dumb" resource meter costs between 10 and 30 USD. Smart meter could not be more than 2x expensive to be competitive. So you should squeeze all other functionality into $5 production cost just to have zero margin, and you should completely forget about autonomy. And I don't even want to start ranting about running costs of GSM. This is what LPWAN like LoRa, Sigfox, NbIoT and Nwave are made for.
  - matthewmacleod 9y ago
    You’re ignoring the marginal cost of requiring meter reads with dumb meters, though, let alone any other benefits that the meter might offer. I agree that the WAN tech is perhaps more suitable in theory, but that ignores the fact that there is already a ubiquitous GSM network in place.
    - SergeAx 9y ago
      Hope UK has 100% GSM coverage, otherwise you have to set up brand new GSM cell to read meters from a remote village, which is 1000-10000 times more expensive than LPWAN base station with active signal amplifier and/or relay station. Pulled a feat like that in Siberia just two days ago)
      - krzyk 9y ago
        I would expect such country like UK to have 100% GSM coverage (e.g. Poland has 100%) - it is quite densely populated - with 2G it is quite easy considering that the meters are installed usually where people live == need GSM coverage.
        SergeAx 9y ago
        I believe you mean "100% of inhabited Poland", and even then you may be wrong. Check this map: https://www.nperf.com/en/map/PL/-/-/signal/ https://www.nperf.com/en/map/PL/-/-/signal/ - there are plenty of spaces with gray "no coverage" dots for every operator. The problem is when you have bad GSM coverage in some unfortunate spot even in a big city - you may just can't solve it. And, by the way, there's a habit to place utility meters in basements, where GSM coverage is much worse.
    - zzzcpan 9y ago
      GSM network can be used to aggregate data from cheaper devices near by. Putting GSM into every device is somewhat silly. But well, there is always a "preference" to solutions offered by certain companies no matter the cost.
- gh02t 9y ago
  Considering the alternative is employing a person who has to go around and read every meter versus the very low cost of a GSM radio I think it very clearly makes sense cost wise.
  - SergeAx 9y ago
    The alternative is to use more appropriate tech for once-a-day/once-an-hour tiny data transfer, like LPWAN. Maybe NFC-like tech, when the host device is installed in a car, which drives around the block once a day/week.
    - gh02t 9y ago
      I agree, LPWAN is a better solution and this is almost exactly its raison d'etre, but the cost isn't really that much more. They're basically using GSM as an LPWAN substitute. GSM radios cost peanuts and the data costs would be pretty low since they don't need to transmit a lot. Plus, low power isn't that important since these devices are connected to mains. > Maybe NFC-like tech, when the host device is installed in a car, which drives around the block once a day/week. This is how my meter works (in the US) and is the same as described in the article. The meter broadcasts on the ISM band every few seconds and somebody in a car drives by while a scanning device records. Still faster than having somebody on foot walking around but I can't help but think a hub system like LoRaWAN might work better, so that no person has to go out on patrol.