6 ms·

I really, really wish there was more discussion of this. This is something that is very present in my life and the lives of people I have worked with, but nobod

I really, really wish there was more discussion of this. This is something that is very present in my life and the lives of people I have worked with, but nobody talks about it. The two things that really stick out for me are the existential implications of taking a pill that rewires your brain, and the inevitable intersection of that with one's career choices.

fny 9y ago
I don't take adderall, but I'm not too convinced by the concerns listed here. The drug seems far less risky than alcohol on all counts, and I'm pretty sure all amphetamine users are aware that their playing with some sort of fire. I think the compelling question is why people feel so compelled to take a pill to sell their souls to a rat race? Seems like an almost Huxleyan Prisoner's Dilemma to me.
- astrange 9y ago
  If you're "ADHD" it affects having fun just as much as working - imagine you can't finish a book and you can't hold down a conversation with a stranger long enough to start dating them. There are pretty universal subconscious skills medication improves here.
  - Klathmon 9y ago
    This is what I have to explain to people, my ADHD doesn't only apply to things I don't want to do. Things like not being able to watch a movie, or even play some video games without missing huge parts of the story, or sitting through a conversation with a group of friends trying to constantly "catch up" to a topic that I missed a few minutes ago, or trying to be self aware enough to not change the subject on people too quickly because my mind has already changed topics twice during their conversation. I love reading, and it's almost 100% out of the question when I'm not taking my medication. Somewhere around the 5th time of re-reading a paragraph trying to remember where I trailed off only to realize that I just did it again makes it really not a great experience. Even the worst case scenario of the medication severely increasing my chance of heart attack, stroke, or Parkinson's wouldn't make me stop taking it, because it's given me a life. And I would rather live a shorter happier more fulfilling life than a potentially longer one.
    - vincentriemer 9y ago
      I had held off getting tested for ADHD because I was convinced I was just lazy and didn't like schoolwork but once I noticed I couldn't play a single videogame for more than 15 minutes at a time and had to do something else, I got myself tested and ultimately diagnosed. I still remember the first day I took the medication, it was like somebody finally turned off a white noise machine in my brain and I could finally do all the things I've wanted to do.
      - solarmist 9y ago
        This. This was exactly my experience. I texted my wife after my first dose that I heard someone having a conversation near me and that I could hear them, but I didn't know what they were saying and I didn't care. This was a revelation for me.
    - ryanianian 9y ago
      Same - for me the leading indicator of having "true" ADD is the inability to concentrate on the things I _want_ to do. I recently chatted with a shrink who said that ADD patients typically _can_ focus on the things they want to do but struggle with the things they don't want to do. I strongly suspect he's mistaken - I don't know a soul who finds it easy to focus on filing their taxes (except sadistic accountant-type friends). Nothing is more frustrating than having all the "motivation" and desire and curiosity for a task but none of the "ability" to make it happen.
  - fny 9y ago
    I should have clarified: I'm talking about "abusers" here, not those who genuinely need the drug.
- pfisch 9y ago
  >I think the compelling question is why people feel so compelled to take a pill to sell their souls to a rat race? Seems like an almost Huxleyan Prisoner's Dilemma to me. I think people just want to be their best selves. They want to accomplish their goals and they use tools to accomplish those goals. I mean everyone carries a cell phone and I feel like those modify your life and thinking patterns a lot more than taking adderall does.
  - reitanqild 9y ago
    Both stimulants and cell phones can be extremely useful for ADHD users. Cell phones: Possibility to carry a calendar - with alarm. Stimulants: Lowers the threshold for "interesting" so you don't fall asleep/have to do "something"/etc. (Yep, multiple alternatives exist here.)
- heymijo 9y ago
  "I think the compelling question is why people feel so compelled to take a pill to sell their souls to a rat race?" There seems to be an implicit assumption in your question that refers to adults. What about the growing number of people, diagnosed and treated as children or young adults before they really have an agency in the matter? Some U.S. based statistics on diagnoses for different <18 year old groups: https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/data.html https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/data.html http://www.wnd.com/2013/04/radical-increase-in-kids-prescribed-ritalin/ http://www.wnd.com/2013/04/radical-increase-in-kids-prescrib... https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/slaits/nsch.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/slaits/nsch.htm
  - kazagistar 9y ago
    I know we like to think of them as not having agency, but we can still give teens and preteens choices. I know some kids who the medication helped, some who grew out of needing it when they grew older, and some who had strong side effects and stopped taking it after a few weeks. But they most certainly did have that choice.
- ryanianian 9y ago
  > I think the compelling question is why people feel so compelled to take a pill to sell their souls to a rat race? This seems pejorative. The reason why many take "a pill" isn't to sell their soul, it's to do the work they want to do but are otherwise incapable of doing. You may consider this work that they want to do to be "rat race" work, but that's just your judgment of their desires.
- 1a2a3a4a 9y ago
  For what it’s worth, for me, the main impact of adderall is on a second to second level, not whether I can concentrate for 12 hours straight. When I’m not on medication, I have a lot of short term memory loss and sudden changes in train of thought. The impact of this was that I would sometimes “wake up” and have no recollection of how I got to where I currently was, I continuously lost everything, and had trouble with math word problems that were described over long paragraphs. My parents actually originally went to the doctor because of the stress caused by always losing things.

fny 9y ago

I don't take adderall, but I'm not too convinced by the concerns listed here. The drug seems far less risky than alcohol on all counts, and I'm pretty sure all amphetamine users are aware that their playing with some sort of fire. I think the compelling question is why people feel so compelled to take a pill to sell their souls to a rat race? Seems like an almost Huxleyan Prisoner's Dilemma to me.

astrange 9y ago
If you're "ADHD" it affects having fun just as much as working - imagine you can't finish a book and you can't hold down a conversation with a stranger long enough to start dating them. There are pretty universal subconscious skills medication improves here.
- Klathmon 9y ago
  This is what I have to explain to people, my ADHD doesn't only apply to things I don't want to do. Things like not being able to watch a movie, or even play some video games without missing huge parts of the story, or sitting through a conversation with a group of friends trying to constantly "catch up" to a topic that I missed a few minutes ago, or trying to be self aware enough to not change the subject on people too quickly because my mind has already changed topics twice during their conversation. I love reading, and it's almost 100% out of the question when I'm not taking my medication. Somewhere around the 5th time of re-reading a paragraph trying to remember where I trailed off only to realize that I just did it again makes it really not a great experience. Even the worst case scenario of the medication severely increasing my chance of heart attack, stroke, or Parkinson's wouldn't make me stop taking it, because it's given me a life. And I would rather live a shorter happier more fulfilling life than a potentially longer one.
  - vincentriemer 9y ago
    I had held off getting tested for ADHD because I was convinced I was just lazy and didn't like schoolwork but once I noticed I couldn't play a single videogame for more than 15 minutes at a time and had to do something else, I got myself tested and ultimately diagnosed. I still remember the first day I took the medication, it was like somebody finally turned off a white noise machine in my brain and I could finally do all the things I've wanted to do.
    - solarmist 9y ago
      This. This was exactly my experience. I texted my wife after my first dose that I heard someone having a conversation near me and that I could hear them, but I didn't know what they were saying and I didn't care. This was a revelation for me.
  - ryanianian 9y ago
    Same - for me the leading indicator of having "true" ADD is the inability to concentrate on the things I _want_ to do. I recently chatted with a shrink who said that ADD patients typically _can_ focus on the things they want to do but struggle with the things they don't want to do. I strongly suspect he's mistaken - I don't know a soul who finds it easy to focus on filing their taxes (except sadistic accountant-type friends). Nothing is more frustrating than having all the "motivation" and desire and curiosity for a task but none of the "ability" to make it happen.
- fny 9y ago
  I should have clarified: I'm talking about "abusers" here, not those who genuinely need the drug.
pfisch 9y ago
>I think the compelling question is why people feel so compelled to take a pill to sell their souls to a rat race? Seems like an almost Huxleyan Prisoner's Dilemma to me. I think people just want to be their best selves. They want to accomplish their goals and they use tools to accomplish those goals. I mean everyone carries a cell phone and I feel like those modify your life and thinking patterns a lot more than taking adderall does.
- reitanqild 9y ago
  Both stimulants and cell phones can be extremely useful for ADHD users. Cell phones: Possibility to carry a calendar - with alarm. Stimulants: Lowers the threshold for "interesting" so you don't fall asleep/have to do "something"/etc. (Yep, multiple alternatives exist here.)
heymijo 9y ago
"I think the compelling question is why people feel so compelled to take a pill to sell their souls to a rat race?" There seems to be an implicit assumption in your question that refers to adults. What about the growing number of people, diagnosed and treated as children or young adults before they really have an agency in the matter? Some U.S. based statistics on diagnoses for different <18 year old groups: https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/data.html https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/data.html http://www.wnd.com/2013/04/radical-increase-in-kids-prescribed-ritalin/ http://www.wnd.com/2013/04/radical-increase-in-kids-prescrib... https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/slaits/nsch.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/slaits/nsch.htm
- kazagistar 9y ago
  I know we like to think of them as not having agency, but we can still give teens and preteens choices. I know some kids who the medication helped, some who grew out of needing it when they grew older, and some who had strong side effects and stopped taking it after a few weeks. But they most certainly did have that choice.
ryanianian 9y ago
> I think the compelling question is why people feel so compelled to take a pill to sell their souls to a rat race? This seems pejorative. The reason why many take "a pill" isn't to sell their soul, it's to do the work they want to do but are otherwise incapable of doing. You may consider this work that they want to do to be "rat race" work, but that's just your judgment of their desires.
1a2a3a4a 9y ago
For what it’s worth, for me, the main impact of adderall is on a second to second level, not whether I can concentrate for 12 hours straight. When I’m not on medication, I have a lot of short term memory loss and sudden changes in train of thought. The impact of this was that I would sometimes “wake up” and have no recollection of how I got to where I currently was, I continuously lost everything, and had trouble with math word problems that were described over long paragraphs. My parents actually originally went to the doctor because of the stress caused by always losing things.