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Millions of Europeans were murdered by their governments within living memory, with records of similar atrocities going back hundreds of years. Just because th

Millions of Europeans were murdered by their governments within living memory, with records of similar atrocities going back hundreds of years. Just because there's a temporary lull doesn't mean that the problem has gone away permanently, yo.

lenkite 9y ago
And those European governments don't exist today, do they ?Food for thought.
freeflight 9y ago
> Millions of Europeans were murdered by their governments within living memory, with records of similar atrocities going back hundreds of years. Once your country has been around for a bit longer, you will also have a long history with plenty of atrocities to point back at. How many native Americans were killed during the "colonization" of the American continent? Or do these not count because they hadn't been US citizens back then?
- Turing_Machine 9y ago
  > Once your country has been around for a bit longer, With the sole exception of the U.K., our government has been around longer than every other representative democracy on the face of the earth. Note that France is on its fifth attempt at a republic. We won't even mention Germany here. > Or do these not count because they hadn't been US citizens back then? They were mostly killed by European colonists operating under European rules, just like the atrocities that the European governments perpetrated on every other continent of the world.
  - freeflight 9y ago
    > With the sole exception of the U.K., our government has been around longer than every other representative democracy. I was talking about countries, not governments, these two are not the same, even tho the parent comment would like to pretend they are. In that regard, it's still very dishonest to compare Europe, with its often centuries-old animosities between countries in a very small space, to the short history of the USA being a thing, in which it had mostly only had to deal with Mexico and Cannada in terms of "neighbor conflicts". > They were mostly killed by European colonists operating under European rules That's even more dishonest, it's not like all that changed and native Americans were recognized as such, as soon as the US got founded, and everything was perfect after that. The US has the luxury of being rather isolated, thus the vast majority of conflicts can easily be externalized, usually to a completely different continent, with barely any real consequences for the US population. It's for that very same reason that the US been involved in some kind of "war" [0] pretty much constantly in its 200+ years of existence. It's for exactly that reason that so many US Americans have been a-okay with these armed conflicts, as the vast majority of them never hit close to home. No US American alive today does know what it's like to have militarized conflict in, or at, their countries borders. Which probably also explains, in part, the massive overreaction to 9/11. Now you can argue not all of them are "real wars" but rather "interventions" or "anti-terror missions" or whatnot, but let's be real here: That's simply schematics to keep on selling this state of affairs to a US population which is starting to be pretty fed up with sending their kids overseas to die for often very questionable reasons. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_Uni...
topmonk 9y ago
Protection from the government was justifiable before, but now that governments have gained so much power, guns in the hands of the citizenry aren't going to stop them. So what's the point of still letting citizens keep them?

lenkite 9y ago

And those European governments don't exist today, do they ?Food for thought.

freeflight 9y ago

> Millions of Europeans were murdered by their governments within living memory, with records of similar atrocities going back hundreds of years. Once your country has been around for a bit longer, you will also have a long history with plenty of atrocities to point back at. How many native Americans were killed during the "colonization" of the American continent? Or do these not count because they hadn't been US citizens back then?

Turing_Machine 9y ago
> Once your country has been around for a bit longer, With the sole exception of the U.K., our government has been around longer than every other representative democracy on the face of the earth. Note that France is on its fifth attempt at a republic. We won't even mention Germany here. > Or do these not count because they hadn't been US citizens back then? They were mostly killed by European colonists operating under European rules, just like the atrocities that the European governments perpetrated on every other continent of the world.
- freeflight 9y ago
  > With the sole exception of the U.K., our government has been around longer than every other representative democracy. I was talking about countries, not governments, these two are not the same, even tho the parent comment would like to pretend they are. In that regard, it's still very dishonest to compare Europe, with its often centuries-old animosities between countries in a very small space, to the short history of the USA being a thing, in which it had mostly only had to deal with Mexico and Cannada in terms of "neighbor conflicts". > They were mostly killed by European colonists operating under European rules That's even more dishonest, it's not like all that changed and native Americans were recognized as such, as soon as the US got founded, and everything was perfect after that. The US has the luxury of being rather isolated, thus the vast majority of conflicts can easily be externalized, usually to a completely different continent, with barely any real consequences for the US population. It's for that very same reason that the US been involved in some kind of "war" [0] pretty much constantly in its 200+ years of existence. It's for exactly that reason that so many US Americans have been a-okay with these armed conflicts, as the vast majority of them never hit close to home. No US American alive today does know what it's like to have militarized conflict in, or at, their countries borders. Which probably also explains, in part, the massive overreaction to 9/11. Now you can argue not all of them are "real wars" but rather "interventions" or "anti-terror missions" or whatnot, but let's be real here: That's simply schematics to keep on selling this state of affairs to a US population which is starting to be pretty fed up with sending their kids overseas to die for often very questionable reasons. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_Uni...

topmonk 9y ago

Protection from the government was justifiable before, but now that governments have gained so much power, guns in the hands of the citizenry aren't going to stop them. So what's the point of still letting citizens keep them?