6 ms·

> maybe a slow cobol mainframe somewhere Inter-bank money transfers in US are handled by a system that needs multiple "business days" for a transaction to be f

by zkms 9y ago

> maybe a slow cobol mainframe somewhere Inter-bank money transfers in US are handled by a system that needs multiple "business days" for a transaction to be finalised so you're on the money here: https://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer-perspective-part-3/ https://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer-pers...

Aardwolf 9y ago
Oh european banks also like to keep the money for a day. Other than that day of interest it's free though :) no 25 dollar wiring fee as seen in US
- germanier 9y ago
  Is it still that slow? Since a few months 95% of my transactions between Germany, the Netherlands and the UK (EUR account) happen the same day. It's not like banks actually can earn interest right now anyway. If anything it costs them to hold money currently.
  - visarga 9y ago
    It probably happens same day only if you send the transfer early in the morning.
    - germanier 9y ago
      Yes, I forgot to mention that the cutoff now seems to be at around 2pm for most banks (it was much earlier even recently). Transfers after that usually show up on the next day but the value date is often the sending date. I don't do transactions after 6pm or so, therefore no experience that late. All of this only applies to banking days, no transactions get processed on the weekend.
    - Semaphor 9y ago
      Yeah, lately my international transfers (Germany -> UK -> South Africa) have been taking less than a day all in all if I send the money before noon.
- the8472 9y ago
  Since November EU regulation mandates that SEPA transfers should finish within 10 seconds[0]. In practice we're not quite there yet since some smaller regional banks have trouble moving from batch processing to streams, but their deadline extension ends june 2018. [0] https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/sites/default/files/KB/files/EPC278-16_Infographic_SCT%20Inst_Nov%202016_FINAL.pdf https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/sites/default/files/K...
  - owenversteeg 9y ago
    Huh, that's interesting. I remember transferring a few euros for shared pizza to a friend's account a few months back and it took a day. This was between two very large, modern Dutch banks.
    - pgeorgi 9y ago
      >> Since November > a few months back :-) And as the sibling post mentions, it's a new type of transaction. Regular money transfers have to clear on the next day.
  - germanier 9y ago
    It mandates that banks offer a 10-second-transaction but not that all transactions are that fast. For example, the only German bank currently supporting that charges a 0,50€ fee while regular (slower) transfers are free.
- dmannorreys 9y ago
  In Sweden we can transfer money instantly between banks. You essentially register a service tied to your phone number, and people can use that phone number to instantly transfer money to persons or companies without any fees. The service is called Swish [0]. The only requirement is that the receiver has registered the service to his/hers phone number, and that you can authenticate yourself using mobile BankID [1]. [0] https://medium.com/@etiennebr/swish-the-secret-swedish-fintech-payment-company-created-by-nordic-banks-and-used-by-50-of-swedes-cfcf06f59d6f https://medium.com/@etiennebr/swish-the-secret-swedish-finte... [1] https://www.bankid.com/en/ https://www.bankid.com/en/ Edit: Clarification of who can receive your money transfer.
  - eitland 9y ago
    This sounds like the same as Vipps in Norway. Anything up to NOK5000 is free. And it is instant. It has become a huge hit the last year. As for why I guess it's almost as fast as cash and you can add a little note so you can prove (rarely necessary but sometimes useful) that you paid. Now a number of companies are also embracing it and I've started to receive invoices on Vipps. If it could be the thing that kills "Avtalegiro") I'd say that would be great.
henrikschroder 9y ago
> Inter-bank money transfers in US are handled by a system that needs multiple "business days" I wired some money from my US bank account to my Swedish bank account. The US bank obviously operates on a batch process basis, because around 6AM EST I got an email from my US bank saying that they've sent the money, and I should expect it within three days in my destination account. It was already available in my Swedish bank account at that moment, because they have no delays whatsoever because what the hell is there to delay? The difference is like night and day, and I do not understand why American consumers put up with their extremely shitty banks that all seem to be stuck in the 70's. It drives me crazy.
- Amezarak 9y ago
  Well, most Americans aren't doing international wire transfers. I've never had an issue with my American credit union. I draft loans directly out of my account and I can send money to anyone for free (instantly to people with the same bank.) For everything else, I use my credit card for the fraud protection and rewards points.
  - pgeorgi 9y ago
    > I use my credit card for the fraud protection This is another one of those US quirks. The only time I had to deal with banking fraud was when my wife's credit card was stolen. CCs are pretty low on the trust scale here in Germany, they mostly exist to simplify transactions with US-oriented companies.
    - Amezarak 9y ago
      Fraud protection (at least as I was thinking of it) encompasses a lot more than banking fraud. A couple of years ago, a vendor charged me $500 instead of the $50 they had claimed a service would cost. When I complained to them, they called me a liar and refused to do anything. I disputed the transaction with my credit card company. The money never even had to be refunded to me because it never came out of my account. This is a rare occurrence, but having an intermediary preventing $450 that I don't owe being directly debited out of my account is vastly superior to the alternative of complaining to my bank after the actual money is gone.
HoyaSaxa 9y ago
The US ACH system does rely upon COBOL mainframe systems which only support batch processing. But that constraint does not cause the multi-day process. In fact, since September 2017, the US ACH system has supported same-day ACH processing (with a slightly higher fee of 5.2 cents). The main constraint has been more related to operations. There are thousands of people whose sole job is to process ACH files. They mostly work at bankers' banks and corporate credit unions (credit unions' banks). But also at financial institutions that range from under $1mm in assets to over $100bn. Most of these jobs could be fully automated away, but they haven't been yet for a variety of reasons.

by zkms 9y ago

Aardwolf 9y ago

Oh european banks also like to keep the money for a day. Other than that day of interest it's free though :) no 25 dollar wiring fee as seen in US

germanier 9y ago
Is it still that slow? Since a few months 95% of my transactions between Germany, the Netherlands and the UK (EUR account) happen the same day. It's not like banks actually can earn interest right now anyway. If anything it costs them to hold money currently.
- visarga 9y ago
  It probably happens same day only if you send the transfer early in the morning.
  - germanier 9y ago
    Yes, I forgot to mention that the cutoff now seems to be at around 2pm for most banks (it was much earlier even recently). Transfers after that usually show up on the next day but the value date is often the sending date. I don't do transactions after 6pm or so, therefore no experience that late. All of this only applies to banking days, no transactions get processed on the weekend.
  - Semaphor 9y ago
    Yeah, lately my international transfers (Germany -> UK -> South Africa) have been taking less than a day all in all if I send the money before noon.
the8472 9y ago
Since November EU regulation mandates that SEPA transfers should finish within 10 seconds[0]. In practice we're not quite there yet since some smaller regional banks have trouble moving from batch processing to streams, but their deadline extension ends june 2018. [0] https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/sites/default/files/KB/files/EPC278-16_Infographic_SCT%20Inst_Nov%202016_FINAL.pdf https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/sites/default/files/K...
- owenversteeg 9y ago
  Huh, that's interesting. I remember transferring a few euros for shared pizza to a friend's account a few months back and it took a day. This was between two very large, modern Dutch banks.
  - pgeorgi 9y ago
    >> Since November > a few months back :-) And as the sibling post mentions, it's a new type of transaction. Regular money transfers have to clear on the next day.
- germanier 9y ago
  It mandates that banks offer a 10-second-transaction but not that all transactions are that fast. For example, the only German bank currently supporting that charges a 0,50€ fee while regular (slower) transfers are free.
dmannorreys 9y ago
In Sweden we can transfer money instantly between banks. You essentially register a service tied to your phone number, and people can use that phone number to instantly transfer money to persons or companies without any fees. The service is called Swish [0]. The only requirement is that the receiver has registered the service to his/hers phone number, and that you can authenticate yourself using mobile BankID [1]. [0] https://medium.com/@etiennebr/swish-the-secret-swedish-fintech-payment-company-created-by-nordic-banks-and-used-by-50-of-swedes-cfcf06f59d6f https://medium.com/@etiennebr/swish-the-secret-swedish-finte... [1] https://www.bankid.com/en/ https://www.bankid.com/en/ Edit: Clarification of who can receive your money transfer.
- eitland 9y ago
  This sounds like the same as Vipps in Norway. Anything up to NOK5000 is free. And it is instant. It has become a huge hit the last year. As for why I guess it's almost as fast as cash and you can add a little note so you can prove (rarely necessary but sometimes useful) that you paid. Now a number of companies are also embracing it and I've started to receive invoices on Vipps. If it could be the thing that kills "Avtalegiro") I'd say that would be great.

henrikschroder 9y ago

> Inter-bank money transfers in US are handled by a system that needs multiple "business days" I wired some money from my US bank account to my Swedish bank account. The US bank obviously operates on a batch process basis, because around 6AM EST I got an email from my US bank saying that they've sent the money, and I should expect it within three days in my destination account. It was already available in my Swedish bank account at that moment, because they have no delays whatsoever because what the hell is there to delay? The difference is like night and day, and I do not understand why American consumers put up with their extremely shitty banks that all seem to be stuck in the 70's. It drives me crazy.

Amezarak 9y ago
Well, most Americans aren't doing international wire transfers. I've never had an issue with my American credit union. I draft loans directly out of my account and I can send money to anyone for free (instantly to people with the same bank.) For everything else, I use my credit card for the fraud protection and rewards points.
- pgeorgi 9y ago
  > I use my credit card for the fraud protection This is another one of those US quirks. The only time I had to deal with banking fraud was when my wife's credit card was stolen. CCs are pretty low on the trust scale here in Germany, they mostly exist to simplify transactions with US-oriented companies.
  - Amezarak 9y ago
    Fraud protection (at least as I was thinking of it) encompasses a lot more than banking fraud. A couple of years ago, a vendor charged me $500 instead of the $50 they had claimed a service would cost. When I complained to them, they called me a liar and refused to do anything. I disputed the transaction with my credit card company. The money never even had to be refunded to me because it never came out of my account. This is a rare occurrence, but having an intermediary preventing $450 that I don't owe being directly debited out of my account is vastly superior to the alternative of complaining to my bank after the actual money is gone.

HoyaSaxa 9y ago

The US ACH system does rely upon COBOL mainframe systems which only support batch processing. But that constraint does not cause the multi-day process. In fact, since September 2017, the US ACH system has supported same-day ACH processing (with a slightly higher fee of 5.2 cents). The main constraint has been more related to operations. There are thousands of people whose sole job is to process ACH files. They mostly work at bankers' banks and corporate credit unions (credit unions' banks). But also at financial institutions that range from under $1mm in assets to over $100bn. Most of these jobs could be fully automated away, but they haven't been yet for a variety of reasons.