4 ms·

Good luck with that. Driving a stolen minivan wrong-way in a police chase and killing a pedestrian didn't pass depraved heart murder: https://nyc.streetsblog.o

Good luck with that. Driving a stolen minivan wrong-way in a police chase and killing a pedestrian didn't pass depraved heart murder: https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2014/07/23/new-yorks-top-court-exhibits-depraved-indifference-to-pedestrians-lives/ https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2014/07/23/new-yorks-top-court-e... The level of culpability, not least the causal connection here is hundred fold weaker. Casual reading of the law rarely lines up with established case precedence.

tptacek 9y ago
You left out the reasoning. At the precinct, defendant admitted that he stole the minivan, exceeded the speed limit, and swerved into oncoming traffic as he fled the police. In explaining his driving, defendant said he tried to avoid hitting cars and pedestrians, and that he did not know the neighborhood well and drove down the one-way streets by mistake. Defendant said he was lost when he ended up on Manhattan Avenue, and that he was avoiding cars as he evaded the police. According to defendant, he was going against traffic and looking in his rearview mirror for the police immediately before he struck the victim. When he looked forward again, defendant said he saw the victim and that he thought he "hit the girl in the hand or something." When he saw more people and traffic two blocks later, defendant decided to crash into the parked car to avoid hurting anyone else. He also expressed remorse for his actions. It's easy to make the argument that SWAT-ers do the opposite of what this person did and are in fact more culpable: they deliberately, competitively, and with care create circumstances optimized to put lives at risk. They don't just call the police; they call fake active shooting incidents to the police.
- revelation 9y ago
  The whole point of depraved heart murder is to put intent aside and refer back to mere actions. I can already read the statement of the swatter claiming his intent was to pull a prank on a loose friend. Follow the reasoning in Maldonado and you are not getting anywhere near depraved heart murder.
  - tptacek 9y ago
    No, that's not the point of depraved heart murder. It's a culpable state-of-mind standard that requires the prosecution to prove that the defendant acted with "utter disregard" for human life. The predicates are (1) a set of reckless actions that were likely to put lives at risk and (2) a total indifference, unmitigated by any actions whatsover to prevent harm, to the prospect of causing harm. Read the case you just cited. It overturns a depraved indifference conviction and so goes deep into the details on this.

tptacek 9y ago

You left out the reasoning. At the precinct, defendant admitted that he stole the minivan, exceeded the speed limit, and swerved into oncoming traffic as he fled the police. In explaining his driving, defendant said he tried to avoid hitting cars and pedestrians, and that he did not know the neighborhood well and drove down the one-way streets by mistake. Defendant said he was lost when he ended up on Manhattan Avenue, and that he was avoiding cars as he evaded the police. According to defendant, he was going against traffic and looking in his rearview mirror for the police immediately before he struck the victim. When he looked forward again, defendant said he saw the victim and that he thought he "hit the girl in the hand or something." When he saw more people and traffic two blocks later, defendant decided to crash into the parked car to avoid hurting anyone else. He also expressed remorse for his actions. It's easy to make the argument that SWAT-ers do the opposite of what this person did and are in fact more culpable: they deliberately, competitively, and with care create circumstances optimized to put lives at risk. They don't just call the police; they call fake active shooting incidents to the police.

revelation 9y ago
The whole point of depraved heart murder is to put intent aside and refer back to mere actions. I can already read the statement of the swatter claiming his intent was to pull a prank on a loose friend. Follow the reasoning in Maldonado and you are not getting anywhere near depraved heart murder.
- tptacek 9y ago
  No, that's not the point of depraved heart murder. It's a culpable state-of-mind standard that requires the prosecution to prove that the defendant acted with "utter disregard" for human life. The predicates are (1) a set of reckless actions that were likely to put lives at risk and (2) a total indifference, unmitigated by any actions whatsover to prevent harm, to the prospect of causing harm. Read the case you just cited. It overturns a depraved indifference conviction and so goes deep into the details on this.