4 ms·

This just isn't true. Canada and Switzerland, as examples, also have a high number of firearms and not nearly as many firearm-related deaths (at least from 2014

This just isn't true. Canada and Switzerland, as examples, also have a high number of firearms and not nearly as many firearm-related deaths (at least from 2014 data I could find; I doubt it's changed).

davidw 9y ago
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/americas/mass-shootings-us-international.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/americas/mass-shoot... Looks like your numbers are badly off (those countries have less than half the guns the US does per capita, so not all that high), and in Switzerland there are a ton of restrictions on the guns (and on the ammunition!) compared to the US, to boot.
- michaelscott 9y ago
  I'm talking about gun deaths in total, not mass shootings as in your link. Yes, the number of guns is far below the US (every country on Earth is) but looking at the number in isolation is disingenuous. As to legal restrictions in Switzerland, that is absolutely true but orthogonal to the point I've made. The issue lies in the number of guns per person (and I'd personally argue the culture surrounding guns which spurs it), not the legal framework. South Africa has tighter gun laws than the US but still suffers from greater gun deaths (again, in total not mass shootings).
- rbcgerard 9y ago
  I believe that the post above is a reference to household ownership rather than per capita, there are a number of countries where the household ownership percentage is similar, but the number per household is much lower, that is true of many things, cars, TVs, guns, etc.
api_or_ipa 9y ago
A long-gun stored in a locked cabinet in the attic with a trigger guard and ammo in a separate locked compartment is very different than carrying a loaded pistol on your hip in public. In Canada it is essentially impossible for normal citizens to carry a gun in public, let alone a loaded handgun. IIRC you need a separate license to transport your weapon (in a locked case, unloaded, and carried securely in your trunk). The idea of adult citizens carrying loaded pistols around in public is completely foreign in Canada.
- davidw 9y ago
  What you describe is more what things were like in Italy - you can have a gun there, but you have to prove you are responsible, and it is a privilege, not a right. It seemed to work out ok in that people could still own them for self defense or hunting if they put in the effort to do so.
- michaelscott 9y ago
  Oh of course, I agree with you. My point is purely statistical i.e. those are the numbers open for interpretation. The gun cultures in Canada and Switzerland are completely different to the US, but it's disingenuous to simply say more guns == more deaths.
  - llukas 9y ago
    Except that data is there to prove the point - more guns correlates with more deaths. Regardless how you compare - different states inside US or different countries. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/us-gun-violence-statistics-maps-charts https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/u...
    - wavegeek 9y ago
      What a load of rubbish. 1. The compare gun deaths. This includes suicides and excludes all other murders. So it is a totally biased metric. They even admit most gun deaths are suicides. 2. Ignore by far the most salient variables for predicting murders.
      - jessaustin 9y ago
        This is typical "advocacy research". They don't care about science; they only care about getting funded. The general public knows this, so for the most part their research is completely ignored. Don't even get me started on the "suicide is always terrible" bullshit. Many suicides are rational responses to untenable situations. I'm glad that my grandfather had a gun, when AEC and his physicians had both failed him completely.

davidw 9y ago

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/americas/mass-shootings-us-international.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/americas/mass-shoot... Looks like your numbers are badly off (those countries have less than half the guns the US does per capita, so not all that high), and in Switzerland there are a ton of restrictions on the guns (and on the ammunition!) compared to the US, to boot.

michaelscott 9y ago
I'm talking about gun deaths in total, not mass shootings as in your link. Yes, the number of guns is far below the US (every country on Earth is) but looking at the number in isolation is disingenuous. As to legal restrictions in Switzerland, that is absolutely true but orthogonal to the point I've made. The issue lies in the number of guns per person (and I'd personally argue the culture surrounding guns which spurs it), not the legal framework. South Africa has tighter gun laws than the US but still suffers from greater gun deaths (again, in total not mass shootings).
rbcgerard 9y ago
I believe that the post above is a reference to household ownership rather than per capita, there are a number of countries where the household ownership percentage is similar, but the number per household is much lower, that is true of many things, cars, TVs, guns, etc.

api_or_ipa 9y ago

A long-gun stored in a locked cabinet in the attic with a trigger guard and ammo in a separate locked compartment is very different than carrying a loaded pistol on your hip in public. In Canada it is essentially impossible for normal citizens to carry a gun in public, let alone a loaded handgun. IIRC you need a separate license to transport your weapon (in a locked case, unloaded, and carried securely in your trunk). The idea of adult citizens carrying loaded pistols around in public is completely foreign in Canada.

davidw 9y ago
What you describe is more what things were like in Italy - you can have a gun there, but you have to prove you are responsible, and it is a privilege, not a right. It seemed to work out ok in that people could still own them for self defense or hunting if they put in the effort to do so.
michaelscott 9y ago
Oh of course, I agree with you. My point is purely statistical i.e. those are the numbers open for interpretation. The gun cultures in Canada and Switzerland are completely different to the US, but it's disingenuous to simply say more guns == more deaths.
- llukas 9y ago
  Except that data is there to prove the point - more guns correlates with more deaths. Regardless how you compare - different states inside US or different countries. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/us-gun-violence-statistics-maps-charts https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/u...
  - wavegeek 9y ago
    What a load of rubbish. 1. The compare gun deaths. This includes suicides and excludes all other murders. So it is a totally biased metric. They even admit most gun deaths are suicides. 2. Ignore by far the most salient variables for predicting murders.
    - jessaustin 9y ago
      This is typical "advocacy research". They don't care about science; they only care about getting funded. The general public knows this, so for the most part their research is completely ignored. Don't even get me started on the "suicide is always terrible" bullshit. Many suicides are rational responses to untenable situations. I'm glad that my grandfather had a gun, when AEC and his physicians had both failed him completely.