4 ms·

It is absolutely impossible to fly somewhere cheaper than commercial whether you own or rent — it's pretty basic economies of scale. Private pilots do not do i

It is absolutely impossible to fly somewhere cheaper than commercial whether you own or rent — it's pretty basic economies of scale. Private pilots do not do it to save money; they do it for the love of flight itself.

MichaelGG 16y ago
Love of flight, or dislike of how dreary the TSA and current airlines make it?
Vivtek 16y ago
This is something I've wondered about for a while. We have a family of four - where does that economy of scale start to tip the balance? At what point does the increment of cost for private flight get small enough that you say, "OK, for being able to fly out of the local airport on a day's notice, that's worth it?"
- benofsky 16y ago
  I think it's unlikely that you're ever gonna reach a point where it's reasonable for a family but with say 10 executives who are paid thousands of dollars an hour, then it starts to make sense.
- neurotech1 16y ago
  Try buying a plane ticket for business at the last minute, it isn't cheap. A Group of 2-4 business people, for a shorter flight, I'd imagine it would be cheaper to fly a Cessna. No queue at airport security.
- helveticaman 16y ago
  Probably worth it east of the Mississippi, because of the hub-and-spoke model airports have.
- sokoloff 16y ago
  If your frame of reference is an economy coach ticket, if you say "it's more expensive to fly private", you'll almost never be wrong. (Your economy coach ticket is heavily subsidized by the first-class and other full-fare tickets.) If your frame of reference is a first-class or full-fare business class ticket, I can often beat or near the airlines on both cost and door-to-door time. (If the keys to the plane are in your pocket, there's no getting there an hour ahead, dealing with the parking garage, the TSA theater, maybe a delay on takeoff for crew or aircraft availability or ATC/ground holds, perhaps changing planes, waiting at baggage claim, etc. Plus, I can often start and end the flight much closer to the "doors" I want to be at, leave my shoes on and carry 4 oz of gel deodorant in my bag if I want.) As to "that's worth it", I bought a Cessna 182/Skylane (4 seat, single-engine, 160 mph high-wing) a little over 12 years ago, and have flown it for business travel as well as most of our in-US, east of the Mississippi, personal travel, as well as a few trips west of the Mississippi. It costs me under $2/mile on average, and the direct operating cost (aka marginal cost: the cost of an incremental trip within a year) is just under $1/mile. If I had to, I'd pay 2x what flying actually costs me without thinking about it. If you want to travel in your aircraft (as opposed to just going flying), I'd suggest you take the traditional route and go all the way to the private pilot's license. Far fewer restrictions, and if you enjoy flying anyway all of the "extra" time is hardly wasted. IMO, there are too many restrictions on LSA/recreational pilot's certificate to make it usable to actual go places with 3 friends, etc. It's nice to be able to fly into BWI for an Orioles game, or fly up the Hudson River at night, cross Central park and Laguardi tower and head out on course over the Whitestone bridge. I think it's great that the FAA created the easier licenses, but I don't think they are practical for travelling. Used airplanes are reasonably cheap now, and loans and insurance are easy to get. (Most airplanes are made of aluminum and have nearly infinite lifespans, with avionics, engine/props, interior and paint being replaceable items over the life of the plane. Think of a 30-year old airplane as much more like a 30-year old office building than a 30-year old car in terms of "acceptable to rely on". They're inspected annually [or ever 100 flight hours for rentals/commercial usage], and no reason a 30+ year old plane wouldn't be perfectly reasonable.)
  - Retric 16y ago
    Airplanes have less fudge factor and more stress than Office building so while an office building might last 30-300 years with little problem, all airplanes have a shorter lifespan. (Assuming regular use.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_%28material%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_%28material%29 Note: Damage is cumulative. Materials do not recover when rested. And if you look at the bottom of the page you will find a fairly long list of airplanes that failed.
    - c1sc0 16y ago
      A well-maintained airplane will last a long time. Well-maintained means doing it the right way: RX components to look for fatigue, etc ... Yes, this costs. Tthere is some concern wrt. catastrophic failure due to fatigue & ideally you want to have a full history of how the plane was flown.
sammyo 16y ago
Depends somewhat where you fly. From one major city to another major hub airport no question. But across a couple states that are not major routes say a small town in Montana to Wyoming, it could be a significant differential.
gaius 16y ago
There are too many variables to say that for certain. The corporate jet for example isn't pure ostentation; if you fly enough, or at short notice, or between airfields that aren't well served, it might well be worth it.

MichaelGG 16y ago

Love of flight, or dislike of how dreary the TSA and current airlines make it?

Vivtek 16y ago

This is something I've wondered about for a while. We have a family of four - where does that economy of scale start to tip the balance? At what point does the increment of cost for private flight get small enough that you say, "OK, for being able to fly out of the local airport on a day's notice, that's worth it?"

benofsky 16y ago
I think it's unlikely that you're ever gonna reach a point where it's reasonable for a family but with say 10 executives who are paid thousands of dollars an hour, then it starts to make sense.
neurotech1 16y ago
Try buying a plane ticket for business at the last minute, it isn't cheap. A Group of 2-4 business people, for a shorter flight, I'd imagine it would be cheaper to fly a Cessna. No queue at airport security.
helveticaman 16y ago
Probably worth it east of the Mississippi, because of the hub-and-spoke model airports have.
sokoloff 16y ago
If your frame of reference is an economy coach ticket, if you say "it's more expensive to fly private", you'll almost never be wrong. (Your economy coach ticket is heavily subsidized by the first-class and other full-fare tickets.) If your frame of reference is a first-class or full-fare business class ticket, I can often beat or near the airlines on both cost and door-to-door time. (If the keys to the plane are in your pocket, there's no getting there an hour ahead, dealing with the parking garage, the TSA theater, maybe a delay on takeoff for crew or aircraft availability or ATC/ground holds, perhaps changing planes, waiting at baggage claim, etc. Plus, I can often start and end the flight much closer to the "doors" I want to be at, leave my shoes on and carry 4 oz of gel deodorant in my bag if I want.) As to "that's worth it", I bought a Cessna 182/Skylane (4 seat, single-engine, 160 mph high-wing) a little over 12 years ago, and have flown it for business travel as well as most of our in-US, east of the Mississippi, personal travel, as well as a few trips west of the Mississippi. It costs me under $2/mile on average, and the direct operating cost (aka marginal cost: the cost of an incremental trip within a year) is just under $1/mile. If I had to, I'd pay 2x what flying actually costs me without thinking about it. If you want to travel in your aircraft (as opposed to just going flying), I'd suggest you take the traditional route and go all the way to the private pilot's license. Far fewer restrictions, and if you enjoy flying anyway all of the "extra" time is hardly wasted. IMO, there are too many restrictions on LSA/recreational pilot's certificate to make it usable to actual go places with 3 friends, etc. It's nice to be able to fly into BWI for an Orioles game, or fly up the Hudson River at night, cross Central park and Laguardi tower and head out on course over the Whitestone bridge. I think it's great that the FAA created the easier licenses, but I don't think they are practical for travelling. Used airplanes are reasonably cheap now, and loans and insurance are easy to get. (Most airplanes are made of aluminum and have nearly infinite lifespans, with avionics, engine/props, interior and paint being replaceable items over the life of the plane. Think of a 30-year old airplane as much more like a 30-year old office building than a 30-year old car in terms of "acceptable to rely on". They're inspected annually [or ever 100 flight hours for rentals/commercial usage], and no reason a 30+ year old plane wouldn't be perfectly reasonable.)
- Retric 16y ago
  Airplanes have less fudge factor and more stress than Office building so while an office building might last 30-300 years with little problem, all airplanes have a shorter lifespan. (Assuming regular use.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_%28material%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_%28material%29 Note: Damage is cumulative. Materials do not recover when rested. And if you look at the bottom of the page you will find a fairly long list of airplanes that failed.
  - c1sc0 16y ago
    A well-maintained airplane will last a long time. Well-maintained means doing it the right way: RX components to look for fatigue, etc ... Yes, this costs. Tthere is some concern wrt. catastrophic failure due to fatigue & ideally you want to have a full history of how the plane was flown.

sammyo 16y ago

Depends somewhat where you fly. From one major city to another major hub airport no question. But across a couple states that are not major routes say a small town in Montana to Wyoming, it could be a significant differential.

gaius 16y ago

There are too many variables to say that for certain. The corporate jet for example isn't pure ostentation; if you fly enough, or at short notice, or between airfields that aren't well served, it might well be worth it.