5 ms·

Fault isn't a binary thing. It's the parent's fault for not raising their children better, it's the children's fault for not knowing better, it's the police's f

by Zarath 9y ago

Fault isn't a binary thing. It's the parent's fault for not raising their children better, it's the children's fault for not knowing better, it's the police's fault for shooting, it's everyone else's fault for perpetuating a society in which this happens.

icebraining 9y ago
Moral fault? Possibly, but minor. But I certainly don't think it should be a legal fault - at most, a fine for wasting the police's time.
- macintux 9y ago
  I'm sorry, wait, what? Swatting should be at most a fine? I hope I misread that.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    Nope, you didn't.
    - macintux 9y ago
      This should be the legal equivalent of involuntary manslaughter. I certainly hope that's how it is prosecuted.
      - icebraining 9y ago
        I agree with that - the cops should definitively be prosecuted under that charge.
        macintux 9y ago
        I honestly don't know how to respond to your level of moral apathy towards the person who initiated a series of events that could predictably, and indeed did, lead to the completely unnecessary death of an innocent person and traumatization of a family and a police force and a city. The police definitely share some blame, but swatting is absolutely abhorrent. It is not a victimless crime, it is not a casual prank, it is unacceptable, and your indifference is incomprehensible.
        iagooar 9y ago
        You forget that in any normal - I repeat, NORMAL - country, police would not have killed an innocent person no matter what. I get sick when I think that one phone call and a random address can get INNOCENT HUMAN BEINGS killed. Is this the American idea of being the greatest nation on earth?
  - ryanlol 9y ago
    If swatting deserves more than a fine, then you're living in a deeply fucked up society and should probably focus on fixing that first. What you're suggesting would sound utterly ridiculous to someone in Europe.
    - DanBC 9y ago
      People who make hoax bomb calls in the UK get prison sentences. 12 week sentence, suspended for 18 months. http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales- http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales- news/bomb-hoax-caller-tells-judge-13811047 18 week sentence, suspended: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-42255427 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-42255427 12 month sentence (not suspended, I think) http://www.legalcheek.com/2015/02/breaking-news-nazi-bomb-hoax-barrister-handed-12-month-jail-sentence/ http://www.legalcheek.com/2015/02/breaking-news-nazi-bomb-ho... 2 years for a combined bomb hoax and blackmail: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/29/g4s-employee-handed-two-year-sentence-after-making-bomb-threat https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/29/g4s-employe...
- nkrisc 9y ago
  Knowing that the situation could very easily escalate to a lethal outcome and using that knowledge in order to attempt to achieve that outcome is not a moral fault?
  - icebraining 9y ago
    What's your evidence that they had the intention of achieving a lethal outcome?
    - nkrisc 9y ago
      That's for the court to determine. Practically speaking though, it's hard to imagine any other reason for doing what he did.
- slantyyz 9y ago
  Wasting the police's time is calling them to arrest the kid next door for stealing an apple from your tree. Calling the police for a large armed response for a fake domestic violence situation is on a whole other level. IIRC, domestic violence calls are among the most dangerous that the police face, so I guess it wouldn't be a huge leap to think they would be on edge in those circumstances.
- hanbura 9y ago
  Swatting is clearly harmful intend that goes way beyond wasting police resources.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    Calling what they did "swatting" is already a perversion. They made a phone call. Deploying a SWAT team is not, and can not be their decision.
- goatlover 9y ago
  You can't be serious. I hope the swatter spends several years in jail for this.
ademup 9y ago
I cannot down vote, and would rarely do so if I could, but I would here. You are blaming the hurricane on the butterfly. One guy pulled a trigger and killed someone.
- nkrisc 9y ago
  It is not even close to blaming the hurricane on the butterfly. While it should not be possible for such a prank call to lead to a lethal outcome, it currently is entirely possible and realistic for such an outcome to occur in our society today. The perpetrator knew that was a very probable outcome, and used that knowledge to intentionally instigate such a scenario in order to achieve that outcome. Just because he didn't pull the trigger doesn't mean he doesn't share any blame. The world is not the perfect, logical, orderly fantasy-land you seem to think it is.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- archagon 9y ago
  I couldn't think of a more absurd reply to this incident. The whole point of swatting is to get the cops to break into your house and shake you up a bit. Anyone who's been online for the past decade knows just how trigger-happy police in America can be, and it was only a matter of time before something like this happened. This was a game of chicken fueled by a remarkable lack of empathy and conscience. You don't get to wash your hands of the blame just because you didn't pull the trigger.

by Zarath 9y ago

icebraining 9y ago

Moral fault? Possibly, but minor. But I certainly don't think it should be a legal fault - at most, a fine for wasting the police's time.

macintux 9y ago
I'm sorry, wait, what? Swatting should be at most a fine? I hope I misread that.
- icebraining 9y ago
  Nope, you didn't.
  - macintux 9y ago
    This should be the legal equivalent of involuntary manslaughter. I certainly hope that's how it is prosecuted.
    - icebraining 9y ago
      I agree with that - the cops should definitively be prosecuted under that charge.
      - macintux 9y ago
        I honestly don't know how to respond to your level of moral apathy towards the person who initiated a series of events that could predictably, and indeed did, lead to the completely unnecessary death of an innocent person and traumatization of a family and a police force and a city. The police definitely share some blame, but swatting is absolutely abhorrent. It is not a victimless crime, it is not a casual prank, it is unacceptable, and your indifference is incomprehensible.
        iagooar 9y ago
        You forget that in any normal - I repeat, NORMAL - country, police would not have killed an innocent person no matter what. I get sick when I think that one phone call and a random address can get INNOCENT HUMAN BEINGS killed. Is this the American idea of being the greatest nation on earth?
- ryanlol 9y ago
  If swatting deserves more than a fine, then you're living in a deeply fucked up society and should probably focus on fixing that first. What you're suggesting would sound utterly ridiculous to someone in Europe.
  - DanBC 9y ago
    People who make hoax bomb calls in the UK get prison sentences. 12 week sentence, suspended for 18 months. http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales- http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales- news/bomb-hoax-caller-tells-judge-13811047 18 week sentence, suspended: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-42255427 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-42255427 12 month sentence (not suspended, I think) http://www.legalcheek.com/2015/02/breaking-news-nazi-bomb-hoax-barrister-handed-12-month-jail-sentence/ http://www.legalcheek.com/2015/02/breaking-news-nazi-bomb-ho... 2 years for a combined bomb hoax and blackmail: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/29/g4s-employee-handed-two-year-sentence-after-making-bomb-threat https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/29/g4s-employe...
nkrisc 9y ago
Knowing that the situation could very easily escalate to a lethal outcome and using that knowledge in order to attempt to achieve that outcome is not a moral fault?
- icebraining 9y ago
  What's your evidence that they had the intention of achieving a lethal outcome?
  - nkrisc 9y ago
    That's for the court to determine. Practically speaking though, it's hard to imagine any other reason for doing what he did.
slantyyz 9y ago
Wasting the police's time is calling them to arrest the kid next door for stealing an apple from your tree. Calling the police for a large armed response for a fake domestic violence situation is on a whole other level. IIRC, domestic violence calls are among the most dangerous that the police face, so I guess it wouldn't be a huge leap to think they would be on edge in those circumstances.
hanbura 9y ago
Swatting is clearly harmful intend that goes way beyond wasting police resources.
- icebraining 9y ago
  Calling what they did "swatting" is already a perversion. They made a phone call. Deploying a SWAT team is not, and can not be their decision.
goatlover 9y ago
You can't be serious. I hope the swatter spends several years in jail for this.

ademup 9y ago

I cannot down vote, and would rarely do so if I could, but I would here. You are blaming the hurricane on the butterfly. One guy pulled a trigger and killed someone.

nkrisc 9y ago
It is not even close to blaming the hurricane on the butterfly. While it should not be possible for such a prank call to lead to a lethal outcome, it currently is entirely possible and realistic for such an outcome to occur in our society today. The perpetrator knew that was a very probable outcome, and used that knowledge to intentionally instigate such a scenario in order to achieve that outcome. Just because he didn't pull the trigger doesn't mean he doesn't share any blame. The world is not the perfect, logical, orderly fantasy-land you seem to think it is.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
archagon 9y ago
I couldn't think of a more absurd reply to this incident. The whole point of swatting is to get the cops to break into your house and shake you up a bit. Anyone who's been online for the past decade knows just how trigger-happy police in America can be, and it was only a matter of time before something like this happened. This was a game of chicken fueled by a remarkable lack of empathy and conscience. You don't get to wash your hands of the blame just because you didn't pull the trigger.