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It isn’t either or: you don’t need to work 9-5 in order to have a family and friends, the only alternative being driving through Africa. He just said 9-5 isn’t

It isn’t either or: you don’t need to work 9-5 in order to have a family and friends, the only alternative being driving through Africa. He just said 9-5 isn’t life and I think he is right. I work 9-5 and now that I am a father I will beging cut down work. I find it a lot more rewarding to see my daughter starting to crawl than building some software for someone.

icebraining 9y ago
If you don't mind me asking, how will you cut down work? Is your employer willing to just reduce your hours, or do you have other plan? I don't plan on cutting back yet, but I'd like to know for the future, since I've never actually met a career professional doing so.
- mnm1 9y ago
  Be good at what you do. Do it in half the time. Work from home so no one complains that you're getting all of the work done in half the time (people will complain about everything). Of course, you have to find a position that isn't a sweatshop to begin with for this to work. Small businesses--not startups--can be good places to practice this.
- eesmith 9y ago
  It looks like mosselman lives in the Netherlands. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15497755 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15497755 . You are in Portugal (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8029643 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8029643 ), which also has paternity leave. One difference, according to http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/portugal-among-best-for-paternity-leave/37683 http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/portugal-among-best-for-... , is that: > Portugal is the member state with the fifth longest period of paternity leave, with a potential of 21 weeks to care for their newborns. However, this report paints a different picture when it comes to the division of domestic chores. Here, Portugal joins Estonia, India, Japan, Mexico, South Korea and Turkey as among the countries where women put in three times more time on such tasks than their male counterparts. That sounds in Portugal fathers are more expected to work/be a career man, and mothers stay home, than in the Netherlands.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    Nah, we're too poor for that: before the crisis, 87% of women between 25-to-44 had a job here (now they're just unemployed, not voluntarily staying-at-home). They do most of the chores despite having jobs. We're a very patriarchal society still.
    - eesmith 9y ago
      Point taken. That answers your own question, does it not? That is, fathers don't take time off to spend more time with their babies because they are too poor to risk losing that job? (This assumes that men tend to be paid more than women.)
      - icebraining 9y ago
        Fair enough, but I do know some (though not many) middle-class people who could afford it.
        eesmith 9y ago
        We don't know if mosselman is exceptional or typical of Dutch fathers. That is, if only 10% take time off, and you only know 5 middle-class people who could afford it, then odds are that even at the Dutch level you wouldn't know anyone who does that. I suppose it's possi ... okay, that was too easy. A search for "how many Dutch fathers parental leave" comes up with http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2015/06/just-one-in-four-dutch-fathers-takes-parental-leave/ http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2015/06/just-one-in-fo... which says "Just one in four Dutch fathers takes parental leave".
        icebraining 9y ago
        Not sure how this conversation went into parental leave - I actually know fathers who've taken that :) But that's just a month or so. I was talking about working fewer hours (rather than stopping altogether) on a longer-term basis. I find that much harder to achieve than taking a leave, which is similar to regular vacations, which companies are used to handle.
- mosselman 9y ago
  Haha I am not sure in which branch of the discussion to respond, so I will do so here. I am from the Netherlands yes and we can have 26 times our employed hours 26 times full time for me) per child to be spent before they are 8, unpaid. You can use all those hours at once, or spread them out. I will do the latter and have 1 paternal day a week the coming 2,5 years. Looking forward to it as well. Yes I am lucky enough to be able to handle the income decrease.

icebraining 9y ago

If you don't mind me asking, how will you cut down work? Is your employer willing to just reduce your hours, or do you have other plan? I don't plan on cutting back yet, but I'd like to know for the future, since I've never actually met a career professional doing so.

mnm1 9y ago
Be good at what you do. Do it in half the time. Work from home so no one complains that you're getting all of the work done in half the time (people will complain about everything). Of course, you have to find a position that isn't a sweatshop to begin with for this to work. Small businesses--not startups--can be good places to practice this.
eesmith 9y ago
It looks like mosselman lives in the Netherlands. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15497755 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15497755 . You are in Portugal (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8029643 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8029643 ), which also has paternity leave. One difference, according to http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/portugal-among-best-for-paternity-leave/37683 http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/portugal-among-best-for-... , is that: > Portugal is the member state with the fifth longest period of paternity leave, with a potential of 21 weeks to care for their newborns. However, this report paints a different picture when it comes to the division of domestic chores. Here, Portugal joins Estonia, India, Japan, Mexico, South Korea and Turkey as among the countries where women put in three times more time on such tasks than their male counterparts. That sounds in Portugal fathers are more expected to work/be a career man, and mothers stay home, than in the Netherlands.
- icebraining 9y ago
  Nah, we're too poor for that: before the crisis, 87% of women between 25-to-44 had a job here (now they're just unemployed, not voluntarily staying-at-home). They do most of the chores despite having jobs. We're a very patriarchal society still.
  - eesmith 9y ago
    Point taken. That answers your own question, does it not? That is, fathers don't take time off to spend more time with their babies because they are too poor to risk losing that job? (This assumes that men tend to be paid more than women.)
    - icebraining 9y ago
      Fair enough, but I do know some (though not many) middle-class people who could afford it.
      - eesmith 9y ago
        We don't know if mosselman is exceptional or typical of Dutch fathers. That is, if only 10% take time off, and you only know 5 middle-class people who could afford it, then odds are that even at the Dutch level you wouldn't know anyone who does that. I suppose it's possi ... okay, that was too easy. A search for "how many Dutch fathers parental leave" comes up with http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2015/06/just-one-in-four-dutch-fathers-takes-parental-leave/ http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2015/06/just-one-in-fo... which says "Just one in four Dutch fathers takes parental leave".
        icebraining 9y ago
        Not sure how this conversation went into parental leave - I actually know fathers who've taken that :) But that's just a month or so. I was talking about working fewer hours (rather than stopping altogether) on a longer-term basis. I find that much harder to achieve than taking a leave, which is similar to regular vacations, which companies are used to handle.
mosselman 9y ago
Haha I am not sure in which branch of the discussion to respond, so I will do so here. I am from the Netherlands yes and we can have 26 times our employed hours 26 times full time for me) per child to be spent before they are 8, unpaid. You can use all those hours at once, or spread them out. I will do the latter and have 1 paternal day a week the coming 2,5 years. Looking forward to it as well. Yes I am lucky enough to be able to handle the income decrease.