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Driving alone around in Africa is what you consider life? I know working 9-5 is not a good life. However working on something you love, in an environment with f

by TeeWEE 9y ago

Driving alone around in Africa is what you consider life? I know working 9-5 is not a good life. However working on something you love, in an environment with friends and family and fun, is a good life i.m.h.o. I always have the feeling nomads always need to shout of the roofs of "how much better their life is". However I do think, what you are doing is super cool. However seeing it as "this is the only life thats worth living" is a bit extreme.

mosselman 9y ago
It isn’t either or: you don’t need to work 9-5 in order to have a family and friends, the only alternative being driving through Africa. He just said 9-5 isn’t life and I think he is right. I work 9-5 and now that I am a father I will beging cut down work. I find it a lot more rewarding to see my daughter starting to crawl than building some software for someone.
- icebraining 9y ago
  If you don't mind me asking, how will you cut down work? Is your employer willing to just reduce your hours, or do you have other plan? I don't plan on cutting back yet, but I'd like to know for the future, since I've never actually met a career professional doing so.
  - mnm1 9y ago
    Be good at what you do. Do it in half the time. Work from home so no one complains that you're getting all of the work done in half the time (people will complain about everything). Of course, you have to find a position that isn't a sweatshop to begin with for this to work. Small businesses--not startups--can be good places to practice this.
  - eesmith 9y ago
    It looks like mosselman lives in the Netherlands. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15497755 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15497755 . You are in Portugal (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8029643 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8029643 ), which also has paternity leave. One difference, according to http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/portugal-among-best-for-paternity-leave/37683 http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/portugal-among-best-for-... , is that: > Portugal is the member state with the fifth longest period of paternity leave, with a potential of 21 weeks to care for their newborns. However, this report paints a different picture when it comes to the division of domestic chores. Here, Portugal joins Estonia, India, Japan, Mexico, South Korea and Turkey as among the countries where women put in three times more time on such tasks than their male counterparts. That sounds in Portugal fathers are more expected to work/be a career man, and mothers stay home, than in the Netherlands.
    - icebraining 9y ago
      Nah, we're too poor for that: before the crisis, 87% of women between 25-to-44 had a job here (now they're just unemployed, not voluntarily staying-at-home). They do most of the chores despite having jobs. We're a very patriarchal society still.
      - eesmith 9y ago
        Point taken. That answers your own question, does it not? That is, fathers don't take time off to spend more time with their babies because they are too poor to risk losing that job? (This assumes that men tend to be paid more than women.)
        icebraining 9y ago
        Fair enough, but I do know some (though not many) middle-class people who could afford it.
        eesmith 9y ago
        We don't know if mosselman is exceptional or typical of Dutch fathers. That is, if only 10% take time off, and you only know 5 middle-class people who could afford it, then odds are that even at the Dutch level you wouldn't know anyone who does that. I suppose it's possi ... okay, that was too easy. A search for "how many Dutch fathers parental leave" comes up with http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2015/06/just-one-in-four-dutch-fathers-takes-parental-leave/ http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2015/06/just-one-in-fo... which says "Just one in four Dutch fathers takes parental leave".
        icebraining 9y ago
        Not sure how this conversation went into parental leave - I actually know fathers who've taken that :) But that's just a month or so. I was talking about working fewer hours (rather than stopping altogether) on a longer-term basis. I find that much harder to achieve than taking a leave, which is similar to regular vacations, which companies are used to handle.
  - mosselman 9y ago
    Haha I am not sure in which branch of the discussion to respond, so I will do so here. I am from the Netherlands yes and we can have 26 times our employed hours 26 times full time for me) per child to be spent before they are 8, unpaid. You can use all those hours at once, or spread them out. I will do the latter and have 1 paternal day a week the coming 2,5 years. Looking forward to it as well. Yes I am lucky enough to be able to handle the income decrease.
Mediterraneo10 9y ago
> I always have the feeling nomads always need to shout of the roofs of "how much better their life is". If you travel as a nomad and pass through places that serve as meeting points with nomads, you tend to find that while some blog their travels and recommend the lifestyle to everyone else, there are plenty of people quietly living the life, without any internet presence documenting it, and they might be very quiet and introverted people. It might be compared to vegetarianism/veganism, where some have the impression that “vegetarians/vegans always need to shout what they are doing”, but perhaps the majority of people with that diet are just quietly following it without making a big deal of it to others. I’m a digital nomad, I work as translator. I’m currently traveling for the next several months in West Africa. I wouldn’t say that this life is any better than anyone else’s (I just know that it’s what works for me personally) and I’d consider it strange to try to advertise it to others who haven’t shown any inclination towards it. That said, if someone already feels wanderlust, then I’m always happy to give advice, as I have benefited greatly from that kind of travel skillsharing and I do my part to pay it forward.
- dwaltrip 9y ago
  Thanks for your story. It's tough to avoid the tendency to assume the more visible individuals are representative of the group. But as you note, that usually isn't the case, so we should try to avoid doing so.
overcast 9y ago
Honestly, it sounds more like just an advertisement for their "lifestyle blog". Just like everyone and their mother is vegan now, and has to make sure you know it every second of the day.
- goldenkey 9y ago
  "Look I'm worldly - I'm traveling the world!" "Look, I'm a founder! I put a web app up!" "Sign up for my newletter, my blog, my instagram, my X, Y, Z so you can find out how to make the same ad revenue I do, off of people just like you! You don't have to be you forever..you can take advantage of the yous and become one of the mes!" /s
  - overcast 9y ago
    Not sure if you're trying to instigate, but I agree that there is just too much marketing noise, and I wish everyone would just shut up.
- wardrobe 9y ago
  I've been quietly doing it for about 8 years and have met many others like that, but you aren't completely wrong. About 3 years ago I tried to become more of a part of the "digital nomad community" and found it to be full of hucksters.
- wes-k 9y ago
  “Come on try it” “No thank you” “Oh it’s really good just try a bite” “No im alright thank you” “Really!? Just a bite” .. sometimes telling people you’re vegan can help avoid awkward situations like when a friend got some cake they wanted to share.
  - overcast 9y ago
    I'm not talking about becoming a situational mute. But you already knew that. Why does HN have so many pedantic instigators?
cooervo 9y ago
I took 6 months sabbatical to backpack. And after the 5th month I was ready to go back home and live a more stable, quiet life. Being a nomad is not for everyone. It wasn't for me.
- dazc 9y ago
  I like to get away from the everyday annoyances back in the UK (of which there are many) but... When I have been in another place for a few months the differences I initially find refreshing soon melt away and I find some other stuff to get annoyed about. In a way, it's great to know the grass is not always greener elsewhere and to accept that, yes, being a nomad doesn't suit everyone.
owebmaster 9y ago
You have to find you "only Life thats worth living". If you say it'd be a 9-5 life the joke is on you.
grecy 9y ago
> However seeing it as "this is the only life thats worth living" is a bit extreme. I didn't say it was for everyone, I just said it is for me. I have lived both lives, and I know what I like and don't like. I'm certain I am the most qualified person to decided what kind of life is right for me.

by TeeWEE 9y ago

mosselman 9y ago

It isn’t either or: you don’t need to work 9-5 in order to have a family and friends, the only alternative being driving through Africa. He just said 9-5 isn’t life and I think he is right. I work 9-5 and now that I am a father I will beging cut down work. I find it a lot more rewarding to see my daughter starting to crawl than building some software for someone.

icebraining 9y ago
If you don't mind me asking, how will you cut down work? Is your employer willing to just reduce your hours, or do you have other plan? I don't plan on cutting back yet, but I'd like to know for the future, since I've never actually met a career professional doing so.
- mnm1 9y ago
  Be good at what you do. Do it in half the time. Work from home so no one complains that you're getting all of the work done in half the time (people will complain about everything). Of course, you have to find a position that isn't a sweatshop to begin with for this to work. Small businesses--not startups--can be good places to practice this.
- eesmith 9y ago
  It looks like mosselman lives in the Netherlands. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15497755 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15497755 . You are in Portugal (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8029643 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8029643 ), which also has paternity leave. One difference, according to http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/portugal-among-best-for-paternity-leave/37683 http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/portugal-among-best-for-... , is that: > Portugal is the member state with the fifth longest period of paternity leave, with a potential of 21 weeks to care for their newborns. However, this report paints a different picture when it comes to the division of domestic chores. Here, Portugal joins Estonia, India, Japan, Mexico, South Korea and Turkey as among the countries where women put in three times more time on such tasks than their male counterparts. That sounds in Portugal fathers are more expected to work/be a career man, and mothers stay home, than in the Netherlands.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    Nah, we're too poor for that: before the crisis, 87% of women between 25-to-44 had a job here (now they're just unemployed, not voluntarily staying-at-home). They do most of the chores despite having jobs. We're a very patriarchal society still.
    - eesmith 9y ago
      Point taken. That answers your own question, does it not? That is, fathers don't take time off to spend more time with their babies because they are too poor to risk losing that job? (This assumes that men tend to be paid more than women.)
      - icebraining 9y ago
        Fair enough, but I do know some (though not many) middle-class people who could afford it.
        eesmith 9y ago
        We don't know if mosselman is exceptional or typical of Dutch fathers. That is, if only 10% take time off, and you only know 5 middle-class people who could afford it, then odds are that even at the Dutch level you wouldn't know anyone who does that. I suppose it's possi ... okay, that was too easy. A search for "how many Dutch fathers parental leave" comes up with http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2015/06/just-one-in-four-dutch-fathers-takes-parental-leave/ http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2015/06/just-one-in-fo... which says "Just one in four Dutch fathers takes parental leave".
        icebraining 9y ago
        Not sure how this conversation went into parental leave - I actually know fathers who've taken that :) But that's just a month or so. I was talking about working fewer hours (rather than stopping altogether) on a longer-term basis. I find that much harder to achieve than taking a leave, which is similar to regular vacations, which companies are used to handle.
- mosselman 9y ago
  Haha I am not sure in which branch of the discussion to respond, so I will do so here. I am from the Netherlands yes and we can have 26 times our employed hours 26 times full time for me) per child to be spent before they are 8, unpaid. You can use all those hours at once, or spread them out. I will do the latter and have 1 paternal day a week the coming 2,5 years. Looking forward to it as well. Yes I am lucky enough to be able to handle the income decrease.

Mediterraneo10 9y ago

> I always have the feeling nomads always need to shout of the roofs of "how much better their life is". If you travel as a nomad and pass through places that serve as meeting points with nomads, you tend to find that while some blog their travels and recommend the lifestyle to everyone else, there are plenty of people quietly living the life, without any internet presence documenting it, and they might be very quiet and introverted people. It might be compared to vegetarianism/veganism, where some have the impression that “vegetarians/vegans always need to shout what they are doing”, but perhaps the majority of people with that diet are just quietly following it without making a big deal of it to others. I’m a digital nomad, I work as translator. I’m currently traveling for the next several months in West Africa. I wouldn’t say that this life is any better than anyone else’s (I just know that it’s what works for me personally) and I’d consider it strange to try to advertise it to others who haven’t shown any inclination towards it. That said, if someone already feels wanderlust, then I’m always happy to give advice, as I have benefited greatly from that kind of travel skillsharing and I do my part to pay it forward.

dwaltrip 9y ago
Thanks for your story. It's tough to avoid the tendency to assume the more visible individuals are representative of the group. But as you note, that usually isn't the case, so we should try to avoid doing so.

overcast 9y ago

Honestly, it sounds more like just an advertisement for their "lifestyle blog". Just like everyone and their mother is vegan now, and has to make sure you know it every second of the day.

goldenkey 9y ago
"Look I'm worldly - I'm traveling the world!" "Look, I'm a founder! I put a web app up!" "Sign up for my newletter, my blog, my instagram, my X, Y, Z so you can find out how to make the same ad revenue I do, off of people just like you! You don't have to be you forever..you can take advantage of the yous and become one of the mes!" /s
- overcast 9y ago
  Not sure if you're trying to instigate, but I agree that there is just too much marketing noise, and I wish everyone would just shut up.
wardrobe 9y ago
I've been quietly doing it for about 8 years and have met many others like that, but you aren't completely wrong. About 3 years ago I tried to become more of a part of the "digital nomad community" and found it to be full of hucksters.
wes-k 9y ago
“Come on try it” “No thank you” “Oh it’s really good just try a bite” “No im alright thank you” “Really!? Just a bite” .. sometimes telling people you’re vegan can help avoid awkward situations like when a friend got some cake they wanted to share.
- overcast 9y ago
  I'm not talking about becoming a situational mute. But you already knew that. Why does HN have so many pedantic instigators?

cooervo 9y ago

I took 6 months sabbatical to backpack. And after the 5th month I was ready to go back home and live a more stable, quiet life. Being a nomad is not for everyone. It wasn't for me.

dazc 9y ago
I like to get away from the everyday annoyances back in the UK (of which there are many) but... When I have been in another place for a few months the differences I initially find refreshing soon melt away and I find some other stuff to get annoyed about. In a way, it's great to know the grass is not always greener elsewhere and to accept that, yes, being a nomad doesn't suit everyone.

owebmaster 9y ago

You have to find you "only Life thats worth living". If you say it'd be a 9-5 life the joke is on you.

grecy 9y ago

> However seeing it as "this is the only life thats worth living" is a bit extreme. I didn't say it was for everyone, I just said it is for me. I have lived both lives, and I know what I like and don't like. I'm certain I am the most qualified person to decided what kind of life is right for me.