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Sigh. I'm building these into a "kiosk"-like application where the great touchscreen, nvidia graphics, and good cpu are awesome. We sort of knew this would eve

Sigh. I'm building these into a "kiosk"-like application where the great touchscreen, nvidia graphics, and good cpu are awesome. We sort of knew this would eventually happen but it still sucks. Developing on Android in Java is pretty gross, esp without rooting. I would love some sort of vanilla Linux tablet that had something like a 10 year SLA and basic support. Ideally a system with PC architecture hardware that has great support by vanilla linux kernel. The idea is to reduce your dependency on a Big company that only cares about consumer whims for a couple years at a time.

kurius 9y ago
Can you elaborate why it's gross? and why you need root level access?
- etaioinshrdlu 9y ago
  The UI framework is very counterintuitive and clumsy. Things like Fragments and Activities require you to think about lifecycle events that are surprising. There are multiple official implementations of Fragments owing to the massive fragmentation of the platform. The built-in UI elements for stuff get you 80% where you need to be, then for the last 20%, you have to basically throw out the built-in implementation and create your own element. Built-in support for stuff like scrolling data-tables is awful, and the third party ecosystem is even more of a cesspool than HTML5 land. JS devs have no idea how good they have it :) When interfacing with external hardware, like Bluetooth or USB devices, I have found the official documentation to be very lacking. There's simply not a lot of good documentation out there about under what circumstances your user-space BT or USB driver will be allowed to bind to a device, bypassing any kernel drivers, and when it can't. And this is something I needed to do because you're never quite sure what kernel drivers the particular tablet manufacturer decided to include or modify... Android studio is incredible bloatware and keeps on growing. Granted, XCode is as well, but that's no excuse. The Java Language is probably the least painful part of the platform, but it's not much fun either. Glad that Kotlin has become an offical language.
pjc50 9y ago
> vanilla Linux tablet that had something like a 10 year SLA and basic support. Would you be prepared to pay twice as much for it as the cheap tablets that may not be here next year? The production lifetime of a product is determined by the production lifetime of its inputs, and the cheapest components have the least guarantees of anything.
- rplnt 9y ago
  Not to mention how fast this industry moves. What 10 year old tablet would one use today?
  - pjc50 9y ago
    Take your pick: http://www.tabletpcreview.com/feature/top-10-tablet-pcs-of-february-2008/ http://www.tabletpcreview.com/feature/top-10-tablet-pcs-of-f... It doesn't actually look too bad. Someone's selling one of the HPs running Windows 10 on ebay. I can't imagine it being maintenance-free over that lifetime though, it would need to be either fanless or regularly cleaned. Thermal paste wears out. Batteries have a 3-5 year lifespan. Mind you, I'm sitting at work surrounded by ancient point-of-sale hardware that's still in use... (The iPad, which completely redefined "tablet", came out in 2010!)
jdietrich 9y ago
There are a huge range of kiosk touch displays that'll connect to standard PC hardware. There are also all-in-one solutions like the AOPEN eTile 19M. IMO a consumer tablet is absolutely the wrong device for a kiosk application. They don't have the ruggedness, the warranty or the mounting options to provide a reliable and hassle-free installation. http://cdn2.blocksassets.com/assets/aopen/aopen/0a5bKLXyDqjIwcz/AOPEN-WT19M-FB-eTILE-19M-Value-FanFree.pdf http://cdn2.blocksassets.com/assets/aopen/aopen/0a5bKLXyDqjI...
- etaioinshrdlu 9y ago
  I think this is a great idea. Thanks.
drunken-serval 9y ago
Serious question, why not just use iPads?
- pjc50 9y ago
  Speaking as the owner of a 1st gen iPad, they have the same obsolescence problem on a slightly longer timescale. It's barely usable, up-updateable, Safari crashes a lot, so I only use it for Spotify.
mmjaa 9y ago
GPD Pocket fits the bill, although it has a keyboard (but also multi-touch touchscreen) .. runs Ubuntu though, so support shouldn't be a hassle, and its great to write apps for this thing with a full-blown Linux. https://www.reddit.com/r/GPDPocket/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GPDPocket/
ktta 9y ago
Checkout postmarketOS. Still in pre-alpha, but looks like the only option with mainline linux today.
jacksmith21006 9y ago
ChromeOS supports kiosk mode for what it sounds like you want to do. https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/3134673?hl=en https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/3134673?hl=en Use a Chromebook as a kiosk - Chromebook Help - Google Support
ojiikun 9y ago
> Developing on Android in Java is pretty gross, esp without rooting. As someone who both writes mainstream Android/Java code and supports rooted Android devices on a daily basis, I would be most curious to hear a more detailed complaint.

kurius 9y ago

Can you elaborate why it's gross? and why you need root level access?

etaioinshrdlu 9y ago
The UI framework is very counterintuitive and clumsy. Things like Fragments and Activities require you to think about lifecycle events that are surprising. There are multiple official implementations of Fragments owing to the massive fragmentation of the platform. The built-in UI elements for stuff get you 80% where you need to be, then for the last 20%, you have to basically throw out the built-in implementation and create your own element. Built-in support for stuff like scrolling data-tables is awful, and the third party ecosystem is even more of a cesspool than HTML5 land. JS devs have no idea how good they have it :) When interfacing with external hardware, like Bluetooth or USB devices, I have found the official documentation to be very lacking. There's simply not a lot of good documentation out there about under what circumstances your user-space BT or USB driver will be allowed to bind to a device, bypassing any kernel drivers, and when it can't. And this is something I needed to do because you're never quite sure what kernel drivers the particular tablet manufacturer decided to include or modify... Android studio is incredible bloatware and keeps on growing. Granted, XCode is as well, but that's no excuse. The Java Language is probably the least painful part of the platform, but it's not much fun either. Glad that Kotlin has become an offical language.

pjc50 9y ago

> vanilla Linux tablet that had something like a 10 year SLA and basic support. Would you be prepared to pay twice as much for it as the cheap tablets that may not be here next year? The production lifetime of a product is determined by the production lifetime of its inputs, and the cheapest components have the least guarantees of anything.

rplnt 9y ago
Not to mention how fast this industry moves. What 10 year old tablet would one use today?
- pjc50 9y ago
  Take your pick: http://www.tabletpcreview.com/feature/top-10-tablet-pcs-of-february-2008/ http://www.tabletpcreview.com/feature/top-10-tablet-pcs-of-f... It doesn't actually look too bad. Someone's selling one of the HPs running Windows 10 on ebay. I can't imagine it being maintenance-free over that lifetime though, it would need to be either fanless or regularly cleaned. Thermal paste wears out. Batteries have a 3-5 year lifespan. Mind you, I'm sitting at work surrounded by ancient point-of-sale hardware that's still in use... (The iPad, which completely redefined "tablet", came out in 2010!)

jdietrich 9y ago

There are a huge range of kiosk touch displays that'll connect to standard PC hardware. There are also all-in-one solutions like the AOPEN eTile 19M. IMO a consumer tablet is absolutely the wrong device for a kiosk application. They don't have the ruggedness, the warranty or the mounting options to provide a reliable and hassle-free installation. http://cdn2.blocksassets.com/assets/aopen/aopen/0a5bKLXyDqjIwcz/AOPEN-WT19M-FB-eTILE-19M-Value-FanFree.pdf http://cdn2.blocksassets.com/assets/aopen/aopen/0a5bKLXyDqjI...

etaioinshrdlu 9y ago
I think this is a great idea. Thanks.

drunken-serval 9y ago

Serious question, why not just use iPads?

pjc50 9y ago
Speaking as the owner of a 1st gen iPad, they have the same obsolescence problem on a slightly longer timescale. It's barely usable, up-updateable, Safari crashes a lot, so I only use it for Spotify.

mmjaa 9y ago

GPD Pocket fits the bill, although it has a keyboard (but also multi-touch touchscreen) .. runs Ubuntu though, so support shouldn't be a hassle, and its great to write apps for this thing with a full-blown Linux. https://www.reddit.com/r/GPDPocket/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GPDPocket/

ktta 9y ago

Checkout postmarketOS. Still in pre-alpha, but looks like the only option with mainline linux today.

jacksmith21006 9y ago

ChromeOS supports kiosk mode for what it sounds like you want to do. https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/3134673?hl=en https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/3134673?hl=en Use a Chromebook as a kiosk - Chromebook Help - Google Support

ojiikun 9y ago

> Developing on Android in Java is pretty gross, esp without rooting. As someone who both writes mainstream Android/Java code and supports rooted Android devices on a daily basis, I would be most curious to hear a more detailed complaint.