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There's a lot of hate towards the NFL but the NCAA is an even worse actor on CTE. 70,000 college players every year, and they aren't paid professionals like th

There's a lot of hate towards the NFL but the NCAA is an even worse actor on CTE. 70,000 college players every year, and they aren't paid professionals like the NFL. But NCAA programs make billions of dollars off of the players (and their coaches millions). Destroying brains for profit, in the context of the education system, is truly evil.

golergka 9y ago
I don't understand these arguments. Are they forcing players to do it? If the players are well aware of health risks and still make decision to play the game, how is the sports organization to blame?
- pizza 9y ago
  Evil runs on volunteers better than it does coerced conscripts.
- mobilefriendly 9y ago
  95% of the people playing contact football are minor children. The NFL and NCAA, and their equipment partners, underwrite and promote the youth sport but do little to mitigate the brain injury issue...frankly it is unethical to permit under-18 kids to play contact football.
- adanto6840 9y ago
  College with $50k+ of debt, if even able/eligible to get in -- versus "free" college. In many cases I suspect it's the "only chance" for some of these kids and, at best, it's extreme exhortation for most all of them.
  - golergka 9y ago
    I wasn't aware that people without college education in US suffer from mass starvation and getting it is a matter of life and death.
    - pizza 9y ago
      You jest, but I've been noticing over time that that kind of joke is, very gradually, but definitely, becoming less of a joke that gets as big a laugh as it might have in, say, 2006.
- rjtavares 9y ago
  It really depends on where you stand on the freedom vs society protection debate. Some think that society should protect vulnerable individuals (in this case, mostly poor people that see in football a way to get well-off/rich) from predatory organizations (in this case, a monopolistic organization that has proven to have no regard for the health of its workers). Notice that most people aren't asking for a ban of the sport - just some rule changes to minimize the health risks.
  - macintux 9y ago
    Admittedly I haven't looked to see what proposals are out there, but I have a really hard time picturing rule changes that could minimize the risks. The game seems designed explicitly to cause harm.
- clort 9y ago
  Your premise is wrong. It sounds as if it should be right, but the framing is awry The players are not really aware of the health risks, furthermore they are young and foolish and impressionable and are following the path of glamour which has been sold to them as youngsters. The sports organization is aware of the risks and are using the players to make vast sums for themselves, they are pushing the glamourous path and they are not supporting the discarded players. They are ignoring the debt to society incurred generating their profit and that is not good unless you think that their tax payments should cover it (do they? I don't know..)
  - katastic 9y ago
    If the NAACP was selling sex trafficking to cheer leaders to profit from them, we'd care. But because we're destroying the brains and bodies of males with illusions of fame and fortunem and brainwashing them into thinking they're "heroes" and "warriors", it's all the young adult boys fault--even though they're still trying to find their place in the world and the brain clearly still develops until at least 25-years old. And if a major college was teaching students that global warming is false and the Earth was 3,000 years old, and that coal and lead were good for the lungs, the public would be outraged. Don't brainwash out kids! But again... brainwashing football players... they must be jocks... so to hell with them. They "chose" their lives and their eventual crippling diseases. ... But did they? "Disposable male" culture, indeed.
    - msingle 9y ago
      I think you meant NCAA (not NAACP)
    - dang 9y ago
      Your last several comments all break the HN guidelines by being uncivil and/or unsubstantive and/or flamebait. We've warned you about this before. If you keep doing this, we're going to ban your account. We do appreciate your substantive posts but you're damaging the site with these other ones, which are not at all the kind of internet forum HN is trying to be. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html
- lbotos 9y ago
  Let us also remember that to a large swath of Americans youth, sport is seen as an avenue out of poverty. You better believe that if it was your "one shot" to change social class, you might take it at 16 without thinking about the literal brain impact. It's literally the closest thing you can get to modern day gladiators.
brightball 9y ago
NCAA programs do not make billions of dollars. All NCAA programs combined might have that much total revenue. http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/ http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/ Clemson, where I went to school and the current defending champs had a budget of $104,000,000. Of that, they spent $103,000,000. If you'd be so kind as to identify the shareholder who's rolling in that $1 million profit I'd appreciate it. When I was in school around 2000 it was a $30,000,000 budget. All of that extra money happened because of Tivo and Netflix making it so much easier to skip commercials on anything that you didn't need to watch live...which make live sports (that people watch) the most viable advertising channel for traditional broadcasters. Couple that with college sports having the added benefit of mostly aiming advertising at the eyeballs of alumni and you have the most valuable advertising resource in TV. In the mean time, have a look at the new facility that the team gets to enjoy. http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/18614393/take-tour-clemson-tigers-ridiculously-cool-new-facility http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/18614393/tak... In regard to not being paid professionals, if you'll explain walk-ons...the people without scholarships who work to join the team on their own dime and have to meet the exact same requirements to be on the team yet might not ever see the field. The ones who clearly seem to think that there's enough value that they'll pay for the chance to participate. Or then this: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/americas-growing-student-loan-debt-crisis-2016-01-15 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/americas-growing-student-l... I'm sorry, but this whole "everybody get the NCAA" thing is just getting tired.
- creaghpatr 9y ago
  $104M was the budget, Clemson produced $45M in revenue last year, notably less than half of Alabama the other national championship team. But these two teams are likely outliers, way less revenue per school on the long tail. http://www.businessinsider.com/football-revenue-alabama-clemson-2017-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/football-revenue-alabama-clem...
- hyperbovine 9y ago
  Why in God’s name should an institution of higher learning have a nine-figure athletics budget? That is just pure lunacy. The NCAA represents everything that is sleazy and wrong with the relationship between colleges and athletic programs, that is why everyone hates them. When the reckoning finally comes, and it will, we will look back upon this period and marvel.

golergka 9y ago

I don't understand these arguments. Are they forcing players to do it? If the players are well aware of health risks and still make decision to play the game, how is the sports organization to blame?

pizza 9y ago
Evil runs on volunteers better than it does coerced conscripts.
mobilefriendly 9y ago
95% of the people playing contact football are minor children. The NFL and NCAA, and their equipment partners, underwrite and promote the youth sport but do little to mitigate the brain injury issue...frankly it is unethical to permit under-18 kids to play contact football.
adanto6840 9y ago
College with $50k+ of debt, if even able/eligible to get in -- versus "free" college. In many cases I suspect it's the "only chance" for some of these kids and, at best, it's extreme exhortation for most all of them.
- golergka 9y ago
  I wasn't aware that people without college education in US suffer from mass starvation and getting it is a matter of life and death.
  - pizza 9y ago
    You jest, but I've been noticing over time that that kind of joke is, very gradually, but definitely, becoming less of a joke that gets as big a laugh as it might have in, say, 2006.
rjtavares 9y ago
It really depends on where you stand on the freedom vs society protection debate. Some think that society should protect vulnerable individuals (in this case, mostly poor people that see in football a way to get well-off/rich) from predatory organizations (in this case, a monopolistic organization that has proven to have no regard for the health of its workers). Notice that most people aren't asking for a ban of the sport - just some rule changes to minimize the health risks.
- macintux 9y ago
  Admittedly I haven't looked to see what proposals are out there, but I have a really hard time picturing rule changes that could minimize the risks. The game seems designed explicitly to cause harm.
clort 9y ago
Your premise is wrong. It sounds as if it should be right, but the framing is awry The players are not really aware of the health risks, furthermore they are young and foolish and impressionable and are following the path of glamour which has been sold to them as youngsters. The sports organization is aware of the risks and are using the players to make vast sums for themselves, they are pushing the glamourous path and they are not supporting the discarded players. They are ignoring the debt to society incurred generating their profit and that is not good unless you think that their tax payments should cover it (do they? I don't know..)
- katastic 9y ago
  If the NAACP was selling sex trafficking to cheer leaders to profit from them, we'd care. But because we're destroying the brains and bodies of males with illusions of fame and fortunem and brainwashing them into thinking they're "heroes" and "warriors", it's all the young adult boys fault--even though they're still trying to find their place in the world and the brain clearly still develops until at least 25-years old. And if a major college was teaching students that global warming is false and the Earth was 3,000 years old, and that coal and lead were good for the lungs, the public would be outraged. Don't brainwash out kids! But again... brainwashing football players... they must be jocks... so to hell with them. They "chose" their lives and their eventual crippling diseases. ... But did they? "Disposable male" culture, indeed.
  - msingle 9y ago
    I think you meant NCAA (not NAACP)
  - dang 9y ago
    Your last several comments all break the HN guidelines by being uncivil and/or unsubstantive and/or flamebait. We've warned you about this before. If you keep doing this, we're going to ban your account. We do appreciate your substantive posts but you're damaging the site with these other ones, which are not at all the kind of internet forum HN is trying to be. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html
lbotos 9y ago
Let us also remember that to a large swath of Americans youth, sport is seen as an avenue out of poverty. You better believe that if it was your "one shot" to change social class, you might take it at 16 without thinking about the literal brain impact. It's literally the closest thing you can get to modern day gladiators.

brightball 9y ago

NCAA programs do not make billions of dollars. All NCAA programs combined might have that much total revenue. http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/ http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/ Clemson, where I went to school and the current defending champs had a budget of $104,000,000. Of that, they spent $103,000,000. If you'd be so kind as to identify the shareholder who's rolling in that $1 million profit I'd appreciate it. When I was in school around 2000 it was a $30,000,000 budget. All of that extra money happened because of Tivo and Netflix making it so much easier to skip commercials on anything that you didn't need to watch live...which make live sports (that people watch) the most viable advertising channel for traditional broadcasters. Couple that with college sports having the added benefit of mostly aiming advertising at the eyeballs of alumni and you have the most valuable advertising resource in TV. In the mean time, have a look at the new facility that the team gets to enjoy. http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/18614393/take-tour-clemson-tigers-ridiculously-cool-new-facility http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/18614393/tak... In regard to not being paid professionals, if you'll explain walk-ons...the people without scholarships who work to join the team on their own dime and have to meet the exact same requirements to be on the team yet might not ever see the field. The ones who clearly seem to think that there's enough value that they'll pay for the chance to participate. Or then this: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/americas-growing-student-loan-debt-crisis-2016-01-15 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/americas-growing-student-l... I'm sorry, but this whole "everybody get the NCAA" thing is just getting tired.

creaghpatr 9y ago
$104M was the budget, Clemson produced $45M in revenue last year, notably less than half of Alabama the other national championship team. But these two teams are likely outliers, way less revenue per school on the long tail. http://www.businessinsider.com/football-revenue-alabama-clemson-2017-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/football-revenue-alabama-clem...
hyperbovine 9y ago
Why in God’s name should an institution of higher learning have a nine-figure athletics budget? That is just pure lunacy. The NCAA represents everything that is sleazy and wrong with the relationship between colleges and athletic programs, that is why everyone hates them. When the reckoning finally comes, and it will, we will look back upon this period and marvel.