4 ms·

> It’s also a waste of human labor to throw away devices when they could still be made useful with some simple repairs. Are you sure? Assembly line production

> It’s also a waste of human labor to throw away devices when they could still be made useful with some simple repairs. Are you sure? Assembly line production is highly efficient, that's why warranty service usually means "throw way the old one into the refurbish or recycle pile and give you a new one", not "fix your old one"

mschuster91 9y ago
> Assembly line production is highly efficient The highlevel production may be, but rare-earth mining is incredibly dirty (and some of them, if not sourced from fair trade, directly fund warring groups), and IC manufacturing isn't exactly environment friendly too, lots of nasty chemicals used there.
- LaGrange 9y ago
  There's quite a bit of work into recycling those, and Apple has already has the means of recovering much of it - pity people don't generally return their used phones to them, though. Your replacement battery is unlikely to be recycled better than when it's done in an automated manner on a fairly large scale. Of course Apple can get away cheap because of that "people don't even try to recycle" thing. Forcing the industry to do the same thing that happened with bottles (everyone has to accept bottles over certain capacity they sell, and _pay for them_ — though right-wing governments are shuttering those programs) would work wonders, and likely be far better than the romanticised "repairability."
  - visarga 9y ago
    > far better than the romanticised "repairability" I decide on my own what I want, which is to fix the damn thing if it's fixable and not spend 1000$ on a new one. And to fix it is "far better" than to recycle it, or to have it artificially slowed without explanation and deceived into buying a new one. Apple is not the company I once admired. Time passes, MS is slightly more ok and Apple is bad. Weird. I wouldn't have guessed in the early 2000's.
    - LaGrange 9y ago
      "And to fix it is "far better" than to recycle it" Because what, because you say so? I mean, I can say it's far better to dress my phone up in a green skirt and hang it outside my window as a Christmas decoration then. About just as relevant. "Time passes, MS is slightly more ok and Apple is bad." You seem to have missed the lesson from the Apple thing: companies ain't your friends.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- loeg 9y ago
  Recycling old phones in bulk may still be cheaper than individual phone repair.
new299 9y ago
My guess is it's not really much of a waste of human labor, but it is extremely energy inefficient. Energy used in production is generally many multiples of that used during operation. So extending usable lifetime versus manufacturing a new device is more energy efficient in most cases.
- ndespres 9y ago
  How can it not be a waste of human labor to have devices with artificial roadblocks to extended lifetime in place? We have sources of renewable energy, but human potential is the most valuable thing of all. Despite all our advances in manufacturing technology, they seem to be exploited largely to make more stuff faster that needs to be replaced sooner, and the humans never seem to benefit with a reduction in labor.
TaylorAlexander 9y ago
Which is a more efficient use of our labor? The manufacture of a phone with a removable battery or the manufacture of a phone with a non replaceable battery? Both situations benefit from the efficiency of modern production lines, but in the former case that device can be easily refreshed by a lay person out in the real world while with the other phone, the same amount of manufacturing resources went in to a phone that only lasts two years. No matter how “efficient” our modern manufacturing methods are, using them to make a device that lasts two years uses more resources per unit of delivered utility than using them to make something that lasts 5-10 years. Also the reason why it’s cheaper to manufacture new than to repair is exactly because repair is not engineered in to the design. If you have to de solder a battery and crack a case to replace a LiPo, it’s going to be more costly than if you just remove some screws and pop out a connector.
- gnopgnip 9y ago
  There are phones with removable batteries, but consumers largely choose phones without removable batteries, and the market serves them.
  - arbie 9y ago
    It is possible that ecosystem lockin effectively prevents consumers from displaying affinity for removable batteries.
  - garmaine 9y ago
    Where can I buy an iPhone with a removable battery? I didn’t realize I had that choice.
    - visarga 9y ago
      You can have removable battery, or top of the line phone. Choose one.
      - walterbell 9y ago
        False choice, some people would pay extra for a removable battery. There's an entire market for external iPhone battery packs, which are heavier than a removable battery.

mschuster91 9y ago

> Assembly line production is highly efficient The highlevel production may be, but rare-earth mining is incredibly dirty (and some of them, if not sourced from fair trade, directly fund warring groups), and IC manufacturing isn't exactly environment friendly too, lots of nasty chemicals used there.

LaGrange 9y ago
There's quite a bit of work into recycling those, and Apple has already has the means of recovering much of it - pity people don't generally return their used phones to them, though. Your replacement battery is unlikely to be recycled better than when it's done in an automated manner on a fairly large scale. Of course Apple can get away cheap because of that "people don't even try to recycle" thing. Forcing the industry to do the same thing that happened with bottles (everyone has to accept bottles over certain capacity they sell, and _pay for them_ — though right-wing governments are shuttering those programs) would work wonders, and likely be far better than the romanticised "repairability."
- visarga 9y ago
  > far better than the romanticised "repairability" I decide on my own what I want, which is to fix the damn thing if it's fixable and not spend 1000$ on a new one. And to fix it is "far better" than to recycle it, or to have it artificially slowed without explanation and deceived into buying a new one. Apple is not the company I once admired. Time passes, MS is slightly more ok and Apple is bad. Weird. I wouldn't have guessed in the early 2000's.
  - LaGrange 9y ago
    "And to fix it is "far better" than to recycle it" Because what, because you say so? I mean, I can say it's far better to dress my phone up in a green skirt and hang it outside my window as a Christmas decoration then. About just as relevant. "Time passes, MS is slightly more ok and Apple is bad." You seem to have missed the lesson from the Apple thing: companies ain't your friends.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
loeg 9y ago
Recycling old phones in bulk may still be cheaper than individual phone repair.

new299 9y ago

My guess is it's not really much of a waste of human labor, but it is extremely energy inefficient. Energy used in production is generally many multiples of that used during operation. So extending usable lifetime versus manufacturing a new device is more energy efficient in most cases.

ndespres 9y ago
How can it not be a waste of human labor to have devices with artificial roadblocks to extended lifetime in place? We have sources of renewable energy, but human potential is the most valuable thing of all. Despite all our advances in manufacturing technology, they seem to be exploited largely to make more stuff faster that needs to be replaced sooner, and the humans never seem to benefit with a reduction in labor.

TaylorAlexander 9y ago

Which is a more efficient use of our labor? The manufacture of a phone with a removable battery or the manufacture of a phone with a non replaceable battery? Both situations benefit from the efficiency of modern production lines, but in the former case that device can be easily refreshed by a lay person out in the real world while with the other phone, the same amount of manufacturing resources went in to a phone that only lasts two years. No matter how “efficient” our modern manufacturing methods are, using them to make a device that lasts two years uses more resources per unit of delivered utility than using them to make something that lasts 5-10 years. Also the reason why it’s cheaper to manufacture new than to repair is exactly because repair is not engineered in to the design. If you have to de solder a battery and crack a case to replace a LiPo, it’s going to be more costly than if you just remove some screws and pop out a connector.

gnopgnip 9y ago
There are phones with removable batteries, but consumers largely choose phones without removable batteries, and the market serves them.
- arbie 9y ago
  It is possible that ecosystem lockin effectively prevents consumers from displaying affinity for removable batteries.
- garmaine 9y ago
  Where can I buy an iPhone with a removable battery? I didn’t realize I had that choice.
  - visarga 9y ago
    You can have removable battery, or top of the line phone. Choose one.
    - walterbell 9y ago
      False choice, some people would pay extra for a removable battery. There's an entire market for external iPhone battery packs, which are heavier than a removable battery.