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The missing $24 were health insurance, car insurance, pension payments for the driver etc. All not being paid. Uber is no ride share service, it is a test proj

The missing $24 were health insurance, car insurance, pension payments for the driver etc. All not being paid. Uber is no ride share service, it is a test project to figure out if modern society will accept a larger lower income working class without any social security, and that is what all investment firms bet on.

Tiktaalik 9y ago
Additionally taxis are regulated so as to create a reasonably universally publicly accessible transportation system. That is that you can call a cab and it will pick you up and you will have an understanding of the price you will pay. In an Uber/Lyft ride hailing system cabs can only be hailed via an app, and will only accept the most profitable rides. Surge pricing may also make the ride only affordable to the relatively wealthy. In such a system, low income persons in relatively remote areas lose transportation options. Part of the extra price of cabs is the price of creating a transportation system that is accessible to everyone, not just the most wealthy.
- iopq 9y ago
  Uber and Lyft actually succeeded in creating an accessible system that everyone could afford. You have it all backwards. The common person can actually afford Uber, not cabs.
  - Tiktaalik 9y ago
    Many elderly people are no longer able to drive and aren't technically comfortable with using mobile phones. App based ride hailing dominance reduces accessibility.
    - astrange 9y ago
      A button that calls you an Uber is as easy to build as a button that calls the taxi dispatcher for you, but I don’t think the elderly appreciate the taxi experience of demanding cash because they’re pretending the card reader broke. (You can already get a voice assistant to book a ride for you too.)
      - marenkay 9y ago
        Ask your grandma etc if they would use that. Anyone above 50 these days will probably not give you a nice answer to having to use smartphones or voice assistants that usually understand less than a newborn child.
        brucephillips 9y ago
        You've never met a newborn child.
        marenkay 9y ago
        Happen to have a grown up child. Duh.
        brucephillips 9y ago
        Who understood English at birth?
        1_2__4 9y ago
        As someone around that age get off your virtue signaling high horse. People in their fifties today helped build most of the tech you use every day, but even if they hadn’t your implicit ageism levied in service of an accessibility rant is a level of irony that just can’t be ignored.
        marenkay 9y ago
        Considering my own age, it might happen that I just mentioned this because I am rather close to that generation myself. I seriously doubt people will be comfortable with this stuff unless they have a history with engineering/IT.
        dang 9y ago
        We've banned this account for repeatedly violating the HN guidelines.
    - 1_2__4 9y ago
      No, it doesn’t. See we can both play the no proof game.
- ClassyJacket 9y ago
  How can that be true when Uber is cheaper than taxis?
  - Tiktaalik 9y ago
    Uber drivers aren't obligated to accept hail requests. As Uber gains dominance over regulated taxis (which are obligated to serve everyone), the level of accessibility to transportation in certain generally unprofitable areas may decrease.
- pfarnsworth 9y ago
  > That is that you can call a cab and it will pick you up and you will have an understanding of the price you will pay. LOL you must never have taken a cab ride pre-Uber. Your two assertions are the two main reasons why Uber and Lyft exist. > In an Uber/Lyft ride hailing system cabs can only be hailed via an app, and will only accept the most profitable rides. You don't know how the Uber app works.
  - megaman22 9y ago
    Lol, where I live, the idea of finding any cab, even if you knew the cab company and called them, was laughable. Uber at least will come, and will give you an estimate beforehand.
  - Tiktaalik 9y ago
    > You don't know how the Uber app works. So Uber drivers are not able to decline a ride request?
    - pfarnsworth 9y ago
      No, not the way that you're describing. They have no way to "accept only the most profitable rides". This is patently false.
      - Tiktaalik 9y ago
        Ok yeah I see what you mean. The fear that I've heard described by politicians in my city is that uber drivers could position themselves in areas where they know from experience they will be most profitable (eg. dense downtown core) while avoiding areas that over time are not as profitable (eg. sparse outer areas). This fact, coupled with the fact that they are not obligated to travel to a certain area to receive a fare, means that certain areas could receive less reliable service as drivers chase high profit areas and are able to ignore others.
        greenleafjacob 9y ago
iopq 9y ago
The driver uses that money to pay for his own health insurance and retirement. Contrary to your post, Uber provided me with commercial vehicle insurance when I was driving for them.
- marenkay 9y ago
  That is the problem here. Employed work means sharing the duties of social security between company and employee. Uber moves their payments on your shoulders. And that point is exactly what makes up Ubers' valuation. Ignoring the questionable ethics of that this should be reconsidered though because comparing to the technical value of their service they are requiring way too many engineers to deliver their services, which is a considerable risk if they grow any further.
  - iopq 9y ago
    There is no duty for a company to provide social security for contractors. Same way as an Uber contractor has no responsibility to drive a certain amount of time or at certain hours.
dragonwriter 9y ago
> The missing $24 were health insurance, car insurance, pension payments for the driver etc. Car insurance, maybe; car companies don't pay health insurance or pensions either for their drivers, who are also characterized as contractors rather than employees.
- marenkay 9y ago
  That depends on the country. In Europe transportation is regulated, and fees are higher and also arrive at the drivers, since they actually have pensions etc. Meaning Uber eliminates basically the most prominent achievement of the working class with its service. Turning everyone into an independent contractor eliminates social security. Swiftly.
- gaius 9y ago
  Nope, they are employees http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37802386 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37802386 Still waiting on the Inland Revenue to collect all that back NI tho’...
- acchow 9y ago
  Most of them do some driving on the side to supplement their income.

Tiktaalik 9y ago

Additionally taxis are regulated so as to create a reasonably universally publicly accessible transportation system. That is that you can call a cab and it will pick you up and you will have an understanding of the price you will pay. In an Uber/Lyft ride hailing system cabs can only be hailed via an app, and will only accept the most profitable rides. Surge pricing may also make the ride only affordable to the relatively wealthy. In such a system, low income persons in relatively remote areas lose transportation options. Part of the extra price of cabs is the price of creating a transportation system that is accessible to everyone, not just the most wealthy.

iopq 9y ago
Uber and Lyft actually succeeded in creating an accessible system that everyone could afford. You have it all backwards. The common person can actually afford Uber, not cabs.
- Tiktaalik 9y ago
  Many elderly people are no longer able to drive and aren't technically comfortable with using mobile phones. App based ride hailing dominance reduces accessibility.
  - astrange 9y ago
    A button that calls you an Uber is as easy to build as a button that calls the taxi dispatcher for you, but I don’t think the elderly appreciate the taxi experience of demanding cash because they’re pretending the card reader broke. (You can already get a voice assistant to book a ride for you too.)
    - marenkay 9y ago
      Ask your grandma etc if they would use that. Anyone above 50 these days will probably not give you a nice answer to having to use smartphones or voice assistants that usually understand less than a newborn child.
      - brucephillips 9y ago
        You've never met a newborn child.
        marenkay 9y ago
        Happen to have a grown up child. Duh.
        brucephillips 9y ago
        Who understood English at birth?
      - 1_2__4 9y ago
        As someone around that age get off your virtue signaling high horse. People in their fifties today helped build most of the tech you use every day, but even if they hadn’t your implicit ageism levied in service of an accessibility rant is a level of irony that just can’t be ignored.
        marenkay 9y ago
        Considering my own age, it might happen that I just mentioned this because I am rather close to that generation myself. I seriously doubt people will be comfortable with this stuff unless they have a history with engineering/IT.
        dang 9y ago
        We've banned this account for repeatedly violating the HN guidelines.
  - 1_2__4 9y ago
    No, it doesn’t. See we can both play the no proof game.
ClassyJacket 9y ago
How can that be true when Uber is cheaper than taxis?
- Tiktaalik 9y ago
  Uber drivers aren't obligated to accept hail requests. As Uber gains dominance over regulated taxis (which are obligated to serve everyone), the level of accessibility to transportation in certain generally unprofitable areas may decrease.
pfarnsworth 9y ago
> That is that you can call a cab and it will pick you up and you will have an understanding of the price you will pay. LOL you must never have taken a cab ride pre-Uber. Your two assertions are the two main reasons why Uber and Lyft exist. > In an Uber/Lyft ride hailing system cabs can only be hailed via an app, and will only accept the most profitable rides. You don't know how the Uber app works.
- megaman22 9y ago
  Lol, where I live, the idea of finding any cab, even if you knew the cab company and called them, was laughable. Uber at least will come, and will give you an estimate beforehand.
- Tiktaalik 9y ago
  > You don't know how the Uber app works. So Uber drivers are not able to decline a ride request?
  - pfarnsworth 9y ago
    No, not the way that you're describing. They have no way to "accept only the most profitable rides". This is patently false.
    - Tiktaalik 9y ago
      Ok yeah I see what you mean. The fear that I've heard described by politicians in my city is that uber drivers could position themselves in areas where they know from experience they will be most profitable (eg. dense downtown core) while avoiding areas that over time are not as profitable (eg. sparse outer areas). This fact, coupled with the fact that they are not obligated to travel to a certain area to receive a fare, means that certain areas could receive less reliable service as drivers chase high profit areas and are able to ignore others.
      - greenleafjacob 9y ago

iopq 9y ago

The driver uses that money to pay for his own health insurance and retirement. Contrary to your post, Uber provided me with commercial vehicle insurance when I was driving for them.

marenkay 9y ago
That is the problem here. Employed work means sharing the duties of social security between company and employee. Uber moves their payments on your shoulders. And that point is exactly what makes up Ubers' valuation. Ignoring the questionable ethics of that this should be reconsidered though because comparing to the technical value of their service they are requiring way too many engineers to deliver their services, which is a considerable risk if they grow any further.
- iopq 9y ago
  There is no duty for a company to provide social security for contractors. Same way as an Uber contractor has no responsibility to drive a certain amount of time or at certain hours.

dragonwriter 9y ago

> The missing $24 were health insurance, car insurance, pension payments for the driver etc. Car insurance, maybe; car companies don't pay health insurance or pensions either for their drivers, who are also characterized as contractors rather than employees.

marenkay 9y ago
That depends on the country. In Europe transportation is regulated, and fees are higher and also arrive at the drivers, since they actually have pensions etc. Meaning Uber eliminates basically the most prominent achievement of the working class with its service. Turning everyone into an independent contractor eliminates social security. Swiftly.
gaius 9y ago
Nope, they are employees http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37802386 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37802386 Still waiting on the Inland Revenue to collect all that back NI tho’...
acchow 9y ago
Most of them do some driving on the side to supplement their income.