6 ms·

I'm an historian of Europe in the 1500-1800 period and I have to say, respectfully, that your assumptions about the continuity of ethnic identity are just factu

I'm an historian of Europe in the 1500-1800 period and I have to say, respectfully, that your assumptions about the continuity of ethnic identity are just factually incorrect. As an example, 'Spain' was not just a single ethno-state in earlier periods - it was a patchwork of different kingdoms with distinct languages and customs. In fact Spanish identity is not even a single formation today, as any Galician or Catalan or Basque would be likely to tell you. And indeed there are many parts of Spain that have more in common with neighboring regions in France (or Portugal) than with other parts of Spain. This was the norm up until the 19th century when ethnicity became fetishized. I can point you to many books and journal articles on this if you're genuinely interested.

keithpeter 9y ago
I'd be interested in an overview (book form) for non-historians. I get the impression that cities were more important than countries in some ways.
sgt101 9y ago
I share your beliefs, the English empires in France, or Norman, Gascon and Aquitanian empires in Britain, are another example where the borders of today do not reflect the borders of history. I am less well read than you and would like to ask you to post some links if you have some.
alexasmyths 9y ago
I strongly doubt your assertion that Spanish identities pre-19th centuries are somehow so loosely related that they would have little in common with one another so as to not form 'mostly' a generalized identity on the peninsula. Politically, geographically, linguistically - the languages spoken in that region are more similar to one another than those in France and have been for much longer than 200 years -obviously some bit notwithstanding - as I indicated. My point stands and is strongly validated even by linguistic continuity ... 'most' of the Spanish still speak a version of Latin, and the Germans do not. 2000 years later - the 'Greeks' still speak a variation of Greek and still live in the same area. The degree of ethnic continuity fundamentally transcends politcal borders.

keithpeter 9y ago

I'd be interested in an overview (book form) for non-historians. I get the impression that cities were more important than countries in some ways.

sgt101 9y ago

I share your beliefs, the English empires in France, or Norman, Gascon and Aquitanian empires in Britain, are another example where the borders of today do not reflect the borders of history. I am less well read than you and would like to ask you to post some links if you have some.

alexasmyths 9y ago

I strongly doubt your assertion that Spanish identities pre-19th centuries are somehow so loosely related that they would have little in common with one another so as to not form 'mostly' a generalized identity on the peninsula. Politically, geographically, linguistically - the languages spoken in that region are more similar to one another than those in France and have been for much longer than 200 years -obviously some bit notwithstanding - as I indicated. My point stands and is strongly validated even by linguistic continuity ... 'most' of the Spanish still speak a version of Latin, and the Germans do not. 2000 years later - the 'Greeks' still speak a variation of Greek and still live in the same area. The degree of ethnic continuity fundamentally transcends politcal borders.