10 ms·

Not at "$130"

bdamm 9y ago
Almost all middle class families can afford a $130 meal once or twice a year. It's really just about what else they're giving up. Think about how many "middle class" families own Harley motorcycles - and those things are inflated money sinks, similar to a boat, ATV+trailer, RV, lifted truck, or dirtbag travel habit. Most "middle class" families can afford one toy. On that scale, $130 even once a month is quite affordable.
- user5994461 9y ago
  Do they have kid menus? $130 for 4 people would be $520. That's insane. That's the monthly rent for a many bedroom flat in France (outside of major cities). The after tax income is twice or three times that number. Don't expect a middle class family to eat there.
  - caoilte 9y ago
    I don't have kids (although I might be insane), but apparently there's a thing called a "baby-sitter" you can deploy in situations like this and for considerably less than $130 per child.
    - watwut 9y ago
      Then it is not familly dinner.
  - sithadmin 9y ago
    $520 for a group of 4 at a high-end restaurant isn't insane. It's actually fairly reasonable, especially if you throw a bottle of wine or two into the mix. For upper-middle class people that value high-end dining experiences, $130/person for a meal a few times a year isn't particularly unusual (in the USA, at least). Such people are easy to find if you join a local foodie/dining interest group.
    - user5994461 9y ago
      The income in France is many times less than the income in the USA.
      - sithadmin 9y ago
        I'm aware. I think my comment made it clear that I was speaking to the middle-class experience in the USA. That said, $130 USD or €110 /person still isn't unreasonable for a truly good restaurant in France. It might be above what the 'middle class' is generally willing to spend, but you can practically throw a rock in France and hit a restaurant that charges these kind of prices. And people (including myself) go out of their way to travel to France to indulge in dining experiences at these sorts of places.
        user5994461 9y ago
        Wasn't clear to me. The article is about a restaurant in France in the middle of nowhere. French families don't have that kind of money to spend on a restaurant. That could work with international tourists in Paris.
      - bonzini 9y ago
        So is healthcare or education. For a couple with two kids, not having to spend 30000$ per kid on their university tuition is quite a difference.
        pacala 9y ago
        Per kid per year.
  - bonzini 9y ago
    I've been to a few one-star restaurants, they have kid menus though they of course aren't quite a bargain. We spent just short of 200 euros for four, with only a glass of wine for each adult.
- ekianjo 9y ago
  maybe you have a very distorted perception of how much disposable income the median middle class has.
  - yorwba 9y ago
    I grew up in a decidedly lower-class family (at least as concerns income) and my parents would have been able to afford $130 a year. Of course the kind of financial discipline that lets you save money while on unemployment benefits/working a low-income job makes it quite unlikely to spend it all on a single meal. I'm fairly certain that a middle-class family would be able to afford a $130 meal if they really wanted, it's just that they don't feel like they are getting more enjoyment than 4 $30 meals would provide, and that's OK. Don't pretend that middle-class people have no money to spend, when in reality they just have none left over after spending it on all kinds of things.
- seszett 9y ago
  > Almost all middle class families can afford a $130 meal once or twice a year. It might be different in other countries I guess, but I live in France and Belgium, and nobody I know around here (family, friends, spanning from lower to upper middle class) would even consider eating at a restaurant with that kind of prices. Nobody I know owns Harley motorcycles either, anyway, but it doesn't seem very relevant.
  - notahacker 9y ago
    There's a difference between a family that wouldn't consider spending $130 each on a meal for two because they'd rather spend that money on a weekend break for two or a meal for five and a family that couldn't afford to spend $260 on a leisure pursuit though
  - avar 9y ago
    How many people do you know who smoke? A lot of middle and lower-class people smoke. Some searching reveals that the smoking rate is north of 25% in both France and Belgium, and a pack of cigarettes in France is 7 EUR, let's round that down to 5. So for a 110 EUR (~$130) meal we're talking about the equivalent of 26 days of 1 pack a day smoking, or just under 2 weeks of 2 pack a day. Which I believe eloquently makes the point that you're out of touch with just how much $130 of disposable income over a year is. We're talking about saving 30 cents/day, hardly out of reach of even the poorest of people who'd like to treat themselves to something like an expensive restaurant on a yearly basis.
    - seszett 9y ago
      > you're out of touch with just how much $130 of disposable income over a year is. I'm not actually saying it's much or it's out of reach. I'm saying few people are willing to spend that at a restaurant, not because they're poor (I'm talking about doctors, for example) but mostly because there are so many cheaper and very good restaurants that those expensive ones look like they are just meant for other occasions or other people. The aforementionned doctors sometimes get invited there by pharmaceutical compagnies trying to sell them things, for example. Around my homeplace I know quite a few restaurants with Michelin stars (two-star Coutanceau in La Rochelle for example, from where I came back just this week) and honestly most often the people there seem to be foreign tourists.
- kohanz 9y ago
  This comes entirely down to how you define "middle class" and IMHO it's far too broad of a group to make sweeping statements on what they can and cannot afford. A family with 50k income total might be considered middle class and I doubt they would feel they could afford a $130 per person meal even once a year. A family with 200k income on the other hand might be just as you described. Both could easily consider themselves (or be considered by others) to be "middle class"
  - jandrewrogers 9y ago
    The number you are looking for is household discretionary income -- the money left over after taxes, housing, utilities, food, transportation, and other necessities are paid for. It is the money available for saving or spending on luxuries. The US average discretionary income per household: ~$21,000. That leaves plenty of room for a few $130/head meals. Despite income stagnation, the US middle class still has amazing amounts of discretionary income compared to the rest of the industrialized world.
    - kohanz 9y ago
      Couple of points: (1) median would be more insightful in this context than average and (2) neither do a great job of describing a range of situations like the term "middle class" does. Your point could be changed to "a family with average discretionary income could afford a few $130 per plate meals", but again my point is it's difficult to sweep that across a term that is increasingly describing a very broad range of financial situations.
- refurb 9y ago
  What the middle class is certainly has changed over time. I grew up middle class and there is no way in hell we'd ever go for a meal that was more than $100 per person.

Not at "$130"

Almost all middle class families can afford a $130 meal once or twice a year. It's really just about what else they're giving up. Think about how many "middle class" families own Harley motorcycles - and those things are inflated money sinks, similar to a boat, ATV+trailer, RV, lifted truck, or dirtbag travel habit. Most "middle class" families can afford one toy. On that scale, $130 even once a month is quite affordable.

user5994461 9y ago
Do they have kid menus? $130 for 4 people would be $520. That's insane. That's the monthly rent for a many bedroom flat in France (outside of major cities). The after tax income is twice or three times that number. Don't expect a middle class family to eat there.
- caoilte 9y ago
  I don't have kids (although I might be insane), but apparently there's a thing called a "baby-sitter" you can deploy in situations like this and for considerably less than $130 per child.
  - watwut 9y ago
    Then it is not familly dinner.
- sithadmin 9y ago
  $520 for a group of 4 at a high-end restaurant isn't insane. It's actually fairly reasonable, especially if you throw a bottle of wine or two into the mix. For upper-middle class people that value high-end dining experiences, $130/person for a meal a few times a year isn't particularly unusual (in the USA, at least). Such people are easy to find if you join a local foodie/dining interest group.
  - user5994461 9y ago
    The income in France is many times less than the income in the USA.
    - sithadmin 9y ago
      I'm aware. I think my comment made it clear that I was speaking to the middle-class experience in the USA. That said, $130 USD or €110 /person still isn't unreasonable for a truly good restaurant in France. It might be above what the 'middle class' is generally willing to spend, but you can practically throw a rock in France and hit a restaurant that charges these kind of prices. And people (including myself) go out of their way to travel to France to indulge in dining experiences at these sorts of places.
      - user5994461 9y ago
        Wasn't clear to me. The article is about a restaurant in France in the middle of nowhere. French families don't have that kind of money to spend on a restaurant. That could work with international tourists in Paris.
    - bonzini 9y ago
      So is healthcare or education. For a couple with two kids, not having to spend 30000$ per kid on their university tuition is quite a difference.
      - pacala 9y ago
        Per kid per year.
- bonzini 9y ago
  I've been to a few one-star restaurants, they have kid menus though they of course aren't quite a bargain. We spent just short of 200 euros for four, with only a glass of wine for each adult.
ekianjo 9y ago
maybe you have a very distorted perception of how much disposable income the median middle class has.
- yorwba 9y ago
  I grew up in a decidedly lower-class family (at least as concerns income) and my parents would have been able to afford $130 a year. Of course the kind of financial discipline that lets you save money while on unemployment benefits/working a low-income job makes it quite unlikely to spend it all on a single meal. I'm fairly certain that a middle-class family would be able to afford a $130 meal if they really wanted, it's just that they don't feel like they are getting more enjoyment than 4 $30 meals would provide, and that's OK. Don't pretend that middle-class people have no money to spend, when in reality they just have none left over after spending it on all kinds of things.
seszett 9y ago
> Almost all middle class families can afford a $130 meal once or twice a year. It might be different in other countries I guess, but I live in France and Belgium, and nobody I know around here (family, friends, spanning from lower to upper middle class) would even consider eating at a restaurant with that kind of prices. Nobody I know owns Harley motorcycles either, anyway, but it doesn't seem very relevant.
- notahacker 9y ago
  There's a difference between a family that wouldn't consider spending $130 each on a meal for two because they'd rather spend that money on a weekend break for two or a meal for five and a family that couldn't afford to spend $260 on a leisure pursuit though
- avar 9y ago
  How many people do you know who smoke? A lot of middle and lower-class people smoke. Some searching reveals that the smoking rate is north of 25% in both France and Belgium, and a pack of cigarettes in France is 7 EUR, let's round that down to 5. So for a 110 EUR (~$130) meal we're talking about the equivalent of 26 days of 1 pack a day smoking, or just under 2 weeks of 2 pack a day. Which I believe eloquently makes the point that you're out of touch with just how much $130 of disposable income over a year is. We're talking about saving 30 cents/day, hardly out of reach of even the poorest of people who'd like to treat themselves to something like an expensive restaurant on a yearly basis.
  - seszett 9y ago
    > you're out of touch with just how much $130 of disposable income over a year is. I'm not actually saying it's much or it's out of reach. I'm saying few people are willing to spend that at a restaurant, not because they're poor (I'm talking about doctors, for example) but mostly because there are so many cheaper and very good restaurants that those expensive ones look like they are just meant for other occasions or other people. The aforementionned doctors sometimes get invited there by pharmaceutical compagnies trying to sell them things, for example. Around my homeplace I know quite a few restaurants with Michelin stars (two-star Coutanceau in La Rochelle for example, from where I came back just this week) and honestly most often the people there seem to be foreign tourists.
kohanz 9y ago
This comes entirely down to how you define "middle class" and IMHO it's far too broad of a group to make sweeping statements on what they can and cannot afford. A family with 50k income total might be considered middle class and I doubt they would feel they could afford a $130 per person meal even once a year. A family with 200k income on the other hand might be just as you described. Both could easily consider themselves (or be considered by others) to be "middle class"
- jandrewrogers 9y ago
  The number you are looking for is household discretionary income -- the money left over after taxes, housing, utilities, food, transportation, and other necessities are paid for. It is the money available for saving or spending on luxuries. The US average discretionary income per household: ~$21,000. That leaves plenty of room for a few $130/head meals. Despite income stagnation, the US middle class still has amazing amounts of discretionary income compared to the rest of the industrialized world.
  - kohanz 9y ago
    Couple of points: (1) median would be more insightful in this context than average and (2) neither do a great job of describing a range of situations like the term "middle class" does. Your point could be changed to "a family with average discretionary income could afford a few $130 per plate meals", but again my point is it's difficult to sweep that across a term that is increasingly describing a very broad range of financial situations.
refurb 9y ago
What the middle class is certainly has changed over time. I grew up middle class and there is no way in hell we'd ever go for a meal that was more than $100 per person.