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You can't generalise like that about the whole of Europe - it's a very diverse region. I walked across Europe this summer, from Ireland to Istanbul. Southern Ge

You can't generalise like that about the whole of Europe - it's a very diverse region. I walked across Europe this summer, from Ireland to Istanbul. Southern Germany is doing fine, but Northern France has been hollowed out. The humdrum little rural towns and villages are not doing well at all. I passed through many places where empty shops had signs in their windows saying things like "thank you for your custom over the last eighteen years, but we can no longer make a living here."

gumby 9y ago
Interesting choice of trip —- were you inspired by Patrick Leigh Fermor?
- bklaasen 9y ago
  Yes! Though I walked from Cherbourg rather than Hook of Holland, I crossed the Alps between Salzburg and Kranj in Slovenia, and walked across the Balkans and Bulgaria.
mc32 9y ago
The Ruhrgebiet probably comes close to having the iconoclastic brownfields and abandoned buildings, but don't come close to Detroit's fall. Still, they do have some "rust" areas but have managed better than us.
- foepys 9y ago
  It's quite the opposite in regards to the Ruhrgebiet. Ruhrgebiet cities like Duisburg, Dortmund, and Essen are growing fast. Not as fast as Munich or Hamburg but fast enough for rents to go up considerably. Gentrification is also in full force there. The actual losers are the former GDR states that are being bled to death by thousands of little cuts. Siemens recently announced that it's closing two high-tech factories in Saxony and with it whole towns will lose their currently well-paid jobs. This will lead to an even higher loss of jobs in retail etc.
  - mc32 9y ago
    Aren't they more like Pittsburgh, PA? They suffered some brownfielding but have managed to recover due to good govt management? And now the brownfields are getting cleaned up and revitalized.
    - Karnickel 9y ago
      I'm originally from one of those former GDR states (they became states after reunification, during the GDR they were smaller districts - "Bezirke" [0]). The countryside is slowly dying, even though it still looks pretty nice in the tiny villages (albeit a bit dead). In the towns it can be a bit depressing. I grew up in a town with >35,000 inhabitants just 5 miles from another town of the same size, and lots of villages all around (you can never really get lost in a German forest, just continue walking and you'll get to the next village or town soon). Those same towns now have ~25,000 inhabitants - and the distribution has shifted towards a lot more old people. In Thuringia, for example (the geographic center of Germany, home of Goethe and of Queen Victoria's husband Prince Albert :-) ), the state capital Erfurt (206,000) is doing well, and Jena (108,000) with its Carl Zeiss optics manufacturing [1] and a good university is too. The rest - not so much. Even though cities like Weimar (65,000) look pretty nice and still attract tourism and the population is stable (not shrinking already is a success) they are not exactly the "place to be". So the larger cities are doing well - same as everywhere in the world: People are moving to the urban centers. Better services, better/more jobs, better everything (well, except for space and cost of living). By the way, since we are talking about very good food: This is a sad topic. Germans prefer "cheap" most of all. I have an Italian friend who represents Italian food companies in Germany. He told me they (Italians) sell the good stuff to countries like Spain or France, and the lower quality products to Germany. The reason is not that they dislike Germans, it's the German buyers themselves: In all negotiations the most important topic by far is price, quality doesn't come close. When I visit family in Thuringia it's even worse. I can find okayish food, sure, but it's not easy. Even the Asian fast food in my big West German city is a hundred times better than similar food in a Thuringian town (and they are pretty bad, since they have to offer full meals for 4-8 Euros, no comparison at all to the Asian food I'm used to from when I lived in the Bay Area). I also have a friend who owns a pretty nice middlish restaurant in Thuringia. He has become pretty depressed over the years, and his place is really nice and had good food too (and I say that as a picky eater). His place is not as good as it used to be, he doesn't care all that much any more because it's just not worth it. He's just too old and too well-connected locally to go somewhere else and do something completely new. [0] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bezirk_%28DDR%29 https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bezirk_%28DDR%29 [1] https://www.zeiss.com/carl-zeiss-jena/home.html https://www.zeiss.com/carl-zeiss-jena/home.html
- ralphc 9y ago
  Sorry, can someone explain "brownfielding"? Google's giving baseball gloves.
  - wlesieutre 9y ago
    > A brownfield is a property, the expansion, redevelopment, or reuse of which may be complicated by the presence or potential presence of a hazardous substance, pollutant, or contaminant. It is estimated that there are more than 450,000 brownfields in the U.S. Cleaning up and reinvesting in these properties increases local tax bases, facilitates job growth, utilizes existing infrastructure, takes development pressures off of undeveloped, open land, and both improves and protects the environment. https://www.epa.gov/brownfields/overview-brownfields-program https://www.epa.gov/brownfields/overview-brownfields-program In contrast to "greenfield" projects where they don't have to worry about previous environmental contamination.
lifeisstillgood 9y ago
It would be interesting to know more - a quick google says that's 3,600 miles, and at a very brisk pace of 3 miles an hour 10 hours a day that's 4 months walking. love to know more.
- bonzini 9y ago
  It's 3600 km, not miles. It's about as long as the Appalachian trail.
  - bklaasen 9y ago
    Depends on the route you take, doesn't it?
    - bonzini 9y ago
      Of course, but Google Maps gives exactly the value that the patent comment had, just in another unit of measure.
- bklaasen 9y ago
  I spent one week short of mine months on the walk. I averaged about eighteen kilometres a day. On walking days I'd walk about thirty kilometres. I'd highly recommend it! Europe is very beautiful and very safe. I encountered no hassle and wonderful hospitality and generosity.
  - lifeisstillgood 9y ago
    thank you
olivermarks 9y ago
super impressed you walked all that way @bklaasen!

gumby 9y ago

Interesting choice of trip —- were you inspired by Patrick Leigh Fermor?

bklaasen 9y ago
Yes! Though I walked from Cherbourg rather than Hook of Holland, I crossed the Alps between Salzburg and Kranj in Slovenia, and walked across the Balkans and Bulgaria.

mc32 9y ago

The Ruhrgebiet probably comes close to having the iconoclastic brownfields and abandoned buildings, but don't come close to Detroit's fall. Still, they do have some "rust" areas but have managed better than us.

foepys 9y ago
It's quite the opposite in regards to the Ruhrgebiet. Ruhrgebiet cities like Duisburg, Dortmund, and Essen are growing fast. Not as fast as Munich or Hamburg but fast enough for rents to go up considerably. Gentrification is also in full force there. The actual losers are the former GDR states that are being bled to death by thousands of little cuts. Siemens recently announced that it's closing two high-tech factories in Saxony and with it whole towns will lose their currently well-paid jobs. This will lead to an even higher loss of jobs in retail etc.
- mc32 9y ago
  Aren't they more like Pittsburgh, PA? They suffered some brownfielding but have managed to recover due to good govt management? And now the brownfields are getting cleaned up and revitalized.
  - Karnickel 9y ago
    I'm originally from one of those former GDR states (they became states after reunification, during the GDR they were smaller districts - "Bezirke" [0]). The countryside is slowly dying, even though it still looks pretty nice in the tiny villages (albeit a bit dead). In the towns it can be a bit depressing. I grew up in a town with >35,000 inhabitants just 5 miles from another town of the same size, and lots of villages all around (you can never really get lost in a German forest, just continue walking and you'll get to the next village or town soon). Those same towns now have ~25,000 inhabitants - and the distribution has shifted towards a lot more old people. In Thuringia, for example (the geographic center of Germany, home of Goethe and of Queen Victoria's husband Prince Albert :-) ), the state capital Erfurt (206,000) is doing well, and Jena (108,000) with its Carl Zeiss optics manufacturing [1] and a good university is too. The rest - not so much. Even though cities like Weimar (65,000) look pretty nice and still attract tourism and the population is stable (not shrinking already is a success) they are not exactly the "place to be". So the larger cities are doing well - same as everywhere in the world: People are moving to the urban centers. Better services, better/more jobs, better everything (well, except for space and cost of living). By the way, since we are talking about very good food: This is a sad topic. Germans prefer "cheap" most of all. I have an Italian friend who represents Italian food companies in Germany. He told me they (Italians) sell the good stuff to countries like Spain or France, and the lower quality products to Germany. The reason is not that they dislike Germans, it's the German buyers themselves: In all negotiations the most important topic by far is price, quality doesn't come close. When I visit family in Thuringia it's even worse. I can find okayish food, sure, but it's not easy. Even the Asian fast food in my big West German city is a hundred times better than similar food in a Thuringian town (and they are pretty bad, since they have to offer full meals for 4-8 Euros, no comparison at all to the Asian food I'm used to from when I lived in the Bay Area). I also have a friend who owns a pretty nice middlish restaurant in Thuringia. He has become pretty depressed over the years, and his place is really nice and had good food too (and I say that as a picky eater). His place is not as good as it used to be, he doesn't care all that much any more because it's just not worth it. He's just too old and too well-connected locally to go somewhere else and do something completely new. [0] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bezirk_%28DDR%29 https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bezirk_%28DDR%29 [1] https://www.zeiss.com/carl-zeiss-jena/home.html https://www.zeiss.com/carl-zeiss-jena/home.html
ralphc 9y ago
Sorry, can someone explain "brownfielding"? Google's giving baseball gloves.
- wlesieutre 9y ago
  > A brownfield is a property, the expansion, redevelopment, or reuse of which may be complicated by the presence or potential presence of a hazardous substance, pollutant, or contaminant. It is estimated that there are more than 450,000 brownfields in the U.S. Cleaning up and reinvesting in these properties increases local tax bases, facilitates job growth, utilizes existing infrastructure, takes development pressures off of undeveloped, open land, and both improves and protects the environment. https://www.epa.gov/brownfields/overview-brownfields-program https://www.epa.gov/brownfields/overview-brownfields-program In contrast to "greenfield" projects where they don't have to worry about previous environmental contamination.

lifeisstillgood 9y ago

It would be interesting to know more - a quick google says that's 3,600 miles, and at a very brisk pace of 3 miles an hour 10 hours a day that's 4 months walking. love to know more.

bonzini 9y ago
It's 3600 km, not miles. It's about as long as the Appalachian trail.
- bklaasen 9y ago
  Depends on the route you take, doesn't it?
  - bonzini 9y ago
    Of course, but Google Maps gives exactly the value that the patent comment had, just in another unit of measure.
bklaasen 9y ago
I spent one week short of mine months on the walk. I averaged about eighteen kilometres a day. On walking days I'd walk about thirty kilometres. I'd highly recommend it! Europe is very beautiful and very safe. I encountered no hassle and wonderful hospitality and generosity.
- lifeisstillgood 9y ago
  thank you

olivermarks 9y ago

super impressed you walked all that way @bklaasen!