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Despite the daily nag messages, I still haven't "upgraded" to High Sierra yet because I've heard nothing but bad things about it from friends and coworkers. Wha
by baggachipz 9y ago
Despite the daily nag messages, I still haven't "upgraded" to High Sierra yet because I've heard nothing but bad things about it from friends and coworkers. What does it bring to the table besides headaches?
- jarym 9y agoHave to agree, my biggest concern for putting it off was APFS so I waited until no one complained about it for long enough thinking 'everything else should still be ok' - big mistake. Stay away until Schiller praises the 'stability' release at 2018 Developer Conference.
- baggachipz 9y agoApple has really been eroding their geek cred with their latest OS releases. It's going to take some time to build that goodwill again, and so far they've acted like nothing is wrong.
- christoph 9y agoI think it’s APFS that’s the cause of my biggest frustration, but I’ve not seen anyone else complain about. I normally run with about 50gb free space. After three to four days, I’m normally down to about 3gb and nothing will get it to show back up, other than a reboot. I’ve even run a test which supports this - downloaded 35gb of files, deleted them and emptied the trash. Same thing... space is missing till I reboot.
- JD557 9y agoDo you have the Time Machine enabled? I also have this problem in Sierra. If my Time Machine HDD is not connected, it stores the backups locally. I can only reclaim space if I disable the Time Machine and restart my mac.
- christoph 9y agoNope, Time Machine isn't enabled.
- vetinari 9y agoCheck the /cores directory, it is possible to waste a few tens of gigabytes there easily.
- ungzd 9y agoYes, this is likely the reason: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204015 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204015, and maybe (due to bug or by design) these snapshots are enabled always, even if backup partition is not configured. > In macOS High Sierra, Time Machine stores snapshots on every APFS-formatted, all-flash storage device in your Mac or directly connected to your Mac. I'm curious how it's implemented? Does it use whole-filesystem snapshots? Some discussion: https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/81171 https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/81171
- vonseel 9y agoAnd the typical utilities such as du / df or GUI tools like OmniDiskSweeper report the correct information?
- mgkimsal 9y agothe 'missing space' has hit me a few times over the years, but the highsierra/apfs made it worse. it will often slowly reclaim the space. I've deleted a multigig file, and, say, 30-40 minutes later, the space shows as 'available'. 2016 apple refurb SSD (2015 mbp model). It's all their own hardware and software, and it's buggy (or now designed to be confusing re: disk space).
- ungzd 9y agoI converted main partition on hard disk to APFS and now it's very slow. I know I shouldn't use it on hard disks, but installer (which updates 10.12 to 10.13) crashed otherwise, leaving system unbootable (booting to installer again). After converting root partition to APFS installer was able to complete installation. Not sure, however, that APFS is the reason of slowdown, maybe other filesystems are slow too in this version. FS cache, however, still works, and after warmup system becomes fairly responsive (on 16 Gb of RAM).
- tomduncalf 9y agoI had an issue with “purgable” space on a non-APFS system preventing me from creating a Bootcamp partition. Probably not what you describe but thought it was worth a mention. Followed this guide to “fix” it: https://www.jackenhack.com/mac-os-purgeable-remove-clear-space https://www.jackenhack.com/mac-os-purgeable-remove-clear-spa.... Wasn’t best impressed.
- mitchty 9y agoI can't replicate this on apfs at all, though I've also about 10x as much free space. Rather not write out 500GiB of data to try replicating. $ df -k /; dd if=<(yes) of=$HOME/bigfile bs=1024 count=$((35 * 1024000)); df -k /; rm ~/bigfile; df -k / Filesystem 1024-blocks Used Available Capacity iused ifree %iused Mounted on /dev/disk1s1 976265452 360477544 612444948 38% 1399186 9223372036853376621 0% / 35840000+0 records in 35840000+0 records out 36700160000 bytes transferred in 1038.398720 secs (35343033 bytes/sec) Filesystem 1024-blocks Used Available Capacity iused ifree %iused Mounted on /dev/disk1s1 976265452 396346588 576575904 41% 1399343 9223372036853376464 0% / Filesystem 1024-blocks Used Available Capacity iused ifree %iused Mounted on /dev/disk1s1 976265452 360497876 612424616 38% 1399342 9223372036853376465 0% /
- maxxxxx 9y agoThey totally have f...ed up the free space indicators. It used it be that when I deleted things the indicator reflected it exactly. Now my indicator goes from 150 to 220 GB up and down for no apparent reason. I really have no idea how much free space I have exactly.
- minusf 9y agotime machine local backups cannot be disabled anymore (was possible in sierra). these backups are going to a hidden volume and can be listed with the tmutil(8) command. it is not possible to delete all local snapshots with a single command either, the delete subcommand takes a single date... for this reason i do only on-demand backups when i connect my external backup drive. another worrying thing is that the time machine backup drives still use HFS+ because APFS does not support directory hard links. so now i am backing up APFS files to HFS+ "bit perfectly".
- Khaine 9y agoI'm not sure why you are worrying. APFS doesn't checksum data, only file metadata. So its barely better than HFS+ in terms of data integrity
- minusf 9y agomy worry is backing up from FS A to FS B where these file systems are not feature equal. just the fact that you cannot use APFS to backup APFS is worrying to me.
- acdha 9y agoUse lsof to look for deleted files which are still open. I’ve debugged that problem with third-party software (AV, backups) a few times over the years.
- stinky613 9y agoMan, oh man, do I hate Phil Schiller. It's like someone followed the steps in Weird Science but used smarmy marketing copy instead of pictures of models and scientists. Phil Schiller is the kind of guy who would fart in your face and then proceed to spend ten minutes telling you why soon everyone will be laughing at the fact that they used to breathe fart-free air.
- mvdwoord 9y agoI'm in the same boat. Quite scared of the seemingly endless stream of bad news. Switched to macos about 6 years ago, but it seems to have been a downhill ride.
- jarym 9y agoSo sorry, my experience with Apple from 2004 until Sierra was totally positive - hardware and software. I'm sure Apple will be rectifying this 'dropped ball' moment soon and I pray they'll learn from it.
- carlivar 9y agoThat's what worries me. My hypothesis is that post-Jobs Apple is not capable of what you describe.
- Cshelton 9y agoSame here, I'm holding out. You probably already know just how excited I was to hear they will combine Mac OS and IOS into one OS. I can't wait for all the new bu..err.. features we'll be getting!! \s How's Linux doing with battery life on a laptop these days? I think my 2014 MacBook may be my last.
- chomp 9y agoI have a Dell Precision 5510 with Skylake i7, 32gb RAM, NVMe I get about 10 hours of battery life on Fedora 27. Not too bad at all.
- curiousgal 9y agoWith a GPU?
- krutzger 9y agoHow is the Dell laptop in general? I'm about to ditch apple and was thinking to get either a Dell or a ThinkPad.
- lowbloodsugar 9y agohttps://system76.com/laptops https://system76.com/laptops 8th gen i7s. Up to 64Gb ram. Or if battery matters, 8th gen i7u with same performance as 7th gen 7700, and 32Gb ram. Three year warranties available.
- bproven 9y agoPretty good for me: My battery life is around 10-12 hours (watching video drops to about 6-7 hours) I did the following out of the box: - Use the Intel graphics exclusively - TLP - Powertop adjustments I also have the screen set at a low pretty brightness level as I find the 9550 screen pretty bright (too bright) at mid-high levels. SPECS: ------------ Ubuntu 17.10 Dell 9550 XPS i7-6700HQ CPU @ 2.60GHz non-4K screen (doing this will really save your battery) 16GB RAM Intel® HD Graphics 530 + NVidia 512GB SSD
- coldtea 9y agoA nice new filesystems, and no headaches for me (MBPr 15"). If anything, it solved some Sierra headaches.
- acdha 9y agoThe headaches appear to be video driver specific. Most of the people I know who upgraded on day one haven't had problems. That said, most of the benefits aren't visible so unless you use Safari or an app which depends on Metal 2, etc. there's no massive reason to jump.
- gmueckl 9y agoTaking a wild guess here, the issue sounds like a GPU hang or crash. This gives the illusion of total unresponsiveness when only the display is not updated anymore. It would be interesting to see if networking still works in that frozen state. The CPU seems to be unaffected from the looks of it (sound decoding and playback works).
- acdha 9y agoAgreed — and be rather unsurprising given the patchy nature of video driver quality. It'd be really easy to believe that Metal 2 is putting more pressure on a previously less used code-path and is flushing out bugs or hardware issues.
- ninkendo 9y agoIt’s... fine? Honestly I’ve upgraded on day 1 on every OSX release since lion, the only complaint I really have about High Sierra is that it doesn’t really change anything. I can’t even name one thing off the top of my head that changed since Sierra, and I use almost every built-in app (Mail, iTunes, Calendar, Safari, Terminal.) Safari has some new things (global and per-site reader view, disabling autoplay, privacy enhancements) but that doesn’t really count since it also works on Sierra. I honestly don’t see what all the complaints are about, but I might just be lucky.
- 52-6F-62 9y agoI usually wait a few weeks, but had to upgrade this time for the XCode update and News Preview sim plugin and I had the same experience—even on both an 13" 2013 MBP and 15" 2015 MBP. No problems, but no noticeable changes, really. Except for the font... I use Notes as well and I guess I like the new features, but I hope it doesn't go much further.
- loopbit 9y agoYou might, I have a mac mini that has run fine since day one of the high sierra update. However, my rMBP has had several freezes (at least once a month) and a few graphical glitches (had to do a hard reboot after every instance). Both were updated at the same time. I keep my work laptop (another rMBP) on Sierra and I might just skip updating that one altogether.
- ninkendo 9y agoWell, I also have occasional freezes (also probably once a month, typically it's when resuming from sleep) on my MBP but no more so than I had in Sierra and all the releases before. My iMac (5k) has been pretty much 100% reliable though, so I attribute most of this to the MBP hardware. I'm not saying 10.13 has been perfectly reliable, but it doesn't seem less reliable than previous versions to me.
- username223 9y ago> It’s... fine? ... the only complaint I really have about High Sierra is that it doesn’t really change anything. I'm running 10.13.2 on a 2014 MBP, and can say the same -- as praise, not complaint. I want my desktop OS not to break stuff more than I want it to add new features, and 10.13 mostly succeeds in not annoying me by breaking stuff.
- mnm1 9y agoExactly. Sierra was bad enough requiring a bunch of expensive software upgrades (vmware). There hasn't been any difference in os x in years. My MacBook Pro never slept properly and needs to be hard booted in all of the four past os x releases so there's no need to upgrade even to get the bugs. I wonder if I'll ever own a laptop that sleeps properly, but at this point I doubt that just like I doubt anyone can write a proper file system sync between host and guest vms. I guess some things are just impossible to solve yet, but I'm sure ai will solve all of this in two weeks once it takes over, except Apple's quality problems which seem intractable. /s
- azinman2 9y agoYour mbp doesn’t sleep properly? I haven’t heard of such a thing. What all do you have running on it?
- mnm1 9y agoNever has. To be clear, it sleeps, just never wakes up sometimes. It's actually quite often that this happens. Often it won't even wake up after opening the lid and tapping on its internal keys, so it's not just a USB issue. I'm not running anything unusual. Jetbrains IDEs, Chromium, iTerm2, vmware fusion, slack, sublime, etc. This is an ongoing issue for 4 OS X versions since I bought the laptop. I've just given up on having a computer sleep and wake up properly, especially a laptop, like I've given up on ever seeing reliable bluetooth on the same laptop (can't even play when the speaker is literally touching the laptop without dropouts; phone has no problems). I assume that laptops with reliable sleep is something we might see again in 2020 and beyond (2007 mbpro had it). On the other hand, I know for a fact I will not see reliable bluetooth connections in my lifetime or maybe ever, so compared to that, there's still hope.
- ubu7737 9y agoSame issue here, and I run similar workloads. When I get to work in the morning I just expect that I'll be rebooting this PoS as soon as I open it.
- 9y ago
- jroseattle 9y agoI've had one engineer upgrade his work mac to high sierra. Failure, full stop. We've warned every other engineer not to apply the high sierra OS update until further notice.
- nacs 9y agoAnd just as anecdotally, we've had all of our engineers upgrade to High Sierra and there haven't been any issues day to day.
- jroseattle 9y agoWell, more than just an anecdote for us though. We have 20-30 engineers all running the exact same hardware spec as engineer #1. So, it's sufficient evidence for us.
- hsxd 9y agoI upgraded to high sierra a couple days ago and my MacBook has been freezing AT LEAST once a day. Good on you that you’ve avoided the upgrade, I wish I had too.
- Fnoord 9y agoCan't you downgrade? 10.13 is terrible for people who use FileVault, in multiple ways: 1) If you upgraded to 10.13.0 your password is being leaked in the password hint. 2) APFS + FileVault performance is abysmal compared to APFS without Filevault or HFS + FileVault or HFS without FileVault.
- RGS1811 9y agoAPFS. That's the big addition. I've had a few horrific problems with High Sierra, two of them leading me to do full disk wipes. My current problem is this odd occasional screen scrambling bug, that happens for a split second a couple times a day. Could it be related to the random colors that show up sometimes when I wake my MBP from sleep? I have no idea.
- javajosh 9y agoMy upgrade went fine, but my wife's upgrade hosed her hard-drive, and we had to wipe and start over, installing from a thumbdrive. We both have late 2013 MBPr's. The apple support person was really nice, but failed miserably to help us even build the bootable drive (they didn't understand how to use Disk Utility to create a GUID partition, or how to use Terminal to install the OS)
- eridius 9y agoI upgraded my iMac, zero problems so far (though admittedly this uses a fusion drive so no AFPS). As for reasons to upgrade, there's nothing particularly exciting, but things are just a little better. A lot of nice stuff in Safari, though at least most of it is available in Sierra as well, and I'm not actually sure offhand what (if any) requires High Sierra. HIEF support for photos so they take less space. Also better editing of photos in Photos, including the ability to muck about with live photos (e.g. looping them, bouncing them, etc), which is fun. Notes has some good stuff, such as tables, pinned notes, and sharing with other people (which I've made heavy use of lately). And so on.
- tinus_hn 9y agoIf you believe the bringers of bad news you clearly haven’t been using Apple products for long as the doomsayers alway love to trash their latest products. The next iPhone is always going to be the one that ends Apple, the new OS always shows that Apple finally lost its way. You’re better off ignoring that drivel and making up your own mind.
- teilo 9y agoMy company is in the position of having to upgrade soon, because of the abysmally broken SMB stack on everything since Mavericks. It's fine when you are doing SMB between Macs. But against Windows servers with decent sized directories (upwards of 10K folders), it's a nightmare. Unbearably slow, beachball city, missing files and folders that show up just fine on Windows. We use Acronis Connect (formerly ExtremeZIP) for AFP connectivity at present, but that only helps with the missing files problem. It's still painfully slow. SMB on 10.13.2 is blazingly fast, almost as fast as Windows, and the missing files/folders problem is gone.
- elwell 9y agoI upgraded a couple days ago to get React Native to work (shouldn't be required but I needed to update Xcode). So far works well.
- memco 9y agoThe appeal of Metal 2 and APFS are both pretty big. I waited until 10.13.2 for all the concerns about security and performance issues, but finally made the jump. I am on a mid 2014 MBP and have had no noticeable issues. Most of the people for whom it works aren't posting to Twitter or HN saying "ZOMG everyone! My mac worked fine today. Just like it has been for the last 3+ years."