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MoviePass Adds a Million Subscribers, Even If Theaters Aren’t Sold on It

80 points by dankohn1 9y ago

exabrial 9y ago
Better movies would help theaters out too... CGI still looks like CGI, even in 2017 it's pretty easy to identify a CGI helicopter or explosion. Then there's the eternal topic of throwing violence and sex scenes at the consumer in an attempt to spice up a mundane plot... when all that's needed is a better plot.
- wmeredith 9y ago
  The problem with "better movies" is it's totally subjective-film is art. For instance, I'd argue that the current quality of cinema has never been better. It's a mature medium with several mature distribution channels and the barriers to entry have never been lower. Some of the indie films that get produced these days are incredible. And the spectacle offered by blockbusters is truly breathtaking. Sure, there's a lot of bad movies released on both ends of the budget spectrum, but that has always been true. The theater experience on the other hand, is getting less and less appealing as home audio/video tech continues to improve at a furious pace.
  - exabrial 9y ago
    Agree, it's always subjective; I didn't mean to imply that art is in any form deterministic. The items I criticized are things a general audience groans about movies both indie and blockbusters. I can think of a few recent examples that were good and bad. For instance, the plot in "Valerian" was fairly well done because there was a tension between the two main characters that we wanted to see resolved, despite the plot jumping around a bit from scene to scene. The plot in "Atomic Blonde" also jumped around, but there was no cohesion overall and the sex and violence scenes that followed were a yawn-inducing attempt to keep the viewer interested. I shut it off without finishing it and I haven't wondered how the movie ended. I love spy movies, and was hoping for another well-baked plot like "Jack Ryan: Shadow Recruit". To your last point, none of those movies I watched in a theater, I waited until they were released to my online video service and I could watch from the comfort of my couch. Thinking a bit more, I had low hopes for "Valerian" and "Jack Ryan", and high hopes for "Atomic Blonde", even though those turned out to be the opposite in reality. To my original point, I think that what killed the theater experience for me. I'm afraid to go spend $15 on a movie that _might_ suck. I'd rather spend half that and be able to leave if it's terrible.
Shivetya 9y ago
Damn if the article doesn't reek of being just one big advertisement for the service. It is written as if the theaters have no choice in the face of consumers wanting unrealistically cheap tickets. A service with such an unrealistic price per month that it should be impossible to lose subscribers and be just as impossible to be sustainable once early investor money dries up. It just reminds me of the worst of the early internet businesses, mainly all the grocery delivery attempts and now boutique dinner delivery services all the theater chains need to do is wait it out, count their money from all these effectively free patrons, and then launch their own if desired version. T
- j1vms 9y ago
  > and then launch their own if desired version. If that's what happens in the worst case, then that would be a significant change in the business model of theaters/theater chains - and by extension, the movie industry. And that is possibly the worst case now. Keep in mind the data this company is collecting from their subscribers could be used to help smaller theaters fill their seats at the expense of attendance at larger chains.
- cmiles74 9y ago
  If theaters launched their own service, it would be one service per theater. If you lived in an area with more than one chain, you'd either subscribe to both or only go to one theater chain. Or, more likely, eventually grow dissatisfied with the service and cancel. MoviePass is definitely making things easier for the consumer. One subscription, any theater at any time.
  - Spivak 9y ago
    I think the value-add of 'you can go to any theater' is a tough sell. If the theater that I frequent offered a subscription that was any amount less than MP I would probably switch. Why would I drive further to see a movie?
    - colept 9y ago
      If I have a MoviePass I can go to any theatre. That means I can go watch a movie with my friend who lives in the Bay area, or my Grandmother who lives in Arizona. Your question, "Why would I drive further to see a movie?" is exactly why multi-chain subscription is superior. Because I don't always go to one theatre in one city.
BEEdwards 9y ago
I'm still not sure how this company makes money or how they make the theaters money. So they sell tickets for way under what they cost, they take their cut and pass it on to the theater and studio, and then claim money somehow that simply putting butts in seats is their value add. It just doesn't make sense.
- landonxjames 9y ago
  I've always heard that theaters make the majority of their profit on everything besides the ticket since most of that goes back to the distributors/studios. So I would imagine more butts in seats == more overpriced popcorn sold and potentially more profit.
- wmeredith 9y ago
  Putting butts in seats is a value add. It sells overpriced snacks, which has been the actual profit center for theaters for a couple decades now.
- beisner 9y ago
  Butts in seats is a huge value add if those butts are buying concessions.
  - cyberpunk0 9y ago
    What the hell buys concessions in 2017? I don't know a single person throughout my entire life who doesn't just bringing something in from outside.
    - Touche 9y ago
      You don't have to personally know someone who does it to see people standing in lines at the concession when you walk in. I don't know how old you are, but at a certain point sneaking things into the theater is something you grow out of.
      - chrisseaton 9y ago
deleted 9y ago
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11thEarlOfMar 9y ago
I've been trying to recreate the movie experience at my house for decades: Large screen high definition display, high-end surround sound, etc. but it just does not work. Daylight, phones ringing, kids playing, dryer buzzer, and myriad distractions diminish the experience and I'm always left with notion that it's never as enjoyable at home. Theaters will always have a place in entertainment. And with the recent addition of la-z-boy furniture and reserved seating, there's simply no contest. Now, I want to experience all my favorite films in the communal environment of a theater. Would be great to be able to 'upvote' classic films and have them play at a local house, and watch along with others who like it enough to be there, place and time. Maybe that's where MoviePass is headed?
- bobcostas55 9y ago
  This exists in the UK: ourscreen.com. Seems to work well.
- gnopgnip 9y ago
  If you are in the Bay Area Alameda Theatre does this on Wednesdays. New Parkway does it from time to time also. Both are covered by Moviepass.
  - evanb 9y ago
    New Parkway also screens episodes of MST3K, it's quite a fun audience.
- friedButter 9y ago
  > Would be great to be able to 'upvote' classic films and have them play at a local house, and watch along with others who like it enough to be there, place and time A theater chain in India is trying something similar, though at full price and not discounted like moviepass http://indianexpress.com/article/technology/tech-news-technology/pvr-cinemas-launches-its-theatre-on-demand-service-vkaao-483689/ http://indianexpress.com/article/technology/tech-news-techno...
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
Touche 9y ago
I'm sad to hear this honestly, I was hoping for this to fail to hasten studios accepting that straight-to-digital is the future. Charge me $50 per movie to watch them from the comfort of my home, please.
- ac29 9y ago
  That's existed for a while, but the price is a little eye-popping: $35k for the hardware and $500/rental. There doesn't seem to be much written about it online since 2016, so its possible its defunct or nearly so. http://www.primacinema.com/ http://www.primacinema.com/
  - Touche 9y ago
    IIRC to even buy that you have to have a home theater. They come to your house and inspect to make sure it meets their standards. So yeah, it's not just the price, it's essentially a status product; meant only for the super-rich to show off that they have a home theater.
- krapp 9y ago
  >Charge me $50 per movie to watch them from the comfort of my home, please. Studios are probably too afraid of piracy to accept that - theatrical distribution is an effective means of restricting content distribution and of quality control.
  - Touche 9y ago
    You are probably right, but I'm not sure it's rational. Given the correct pricing to compensate for that, they can still make more money that they make today. I believe I read that the average person sees 2 or 3 movies per year at the theater. Imagine how many they might purchase from home.
- manmal 9y ago
  Whoa $50 would be way too much. 20 perhaps.. not sure I‘d sacrifice the full experience and awesome sound system at that price.
igaape 9y ago
Is movie pass applicable at all movie theatres?? Trying to do the math to see the value
- allemagne 9y ago
  Their materials carefully imply that they aren't, but in my experience all theaters are pretty much covered. Even the small artsy theater ran by a local non-profit.
  - joemi 9y ago
    In my experience, most of the theaters in NYC are covered (including all the AMCs) but there are a small few arthouse theaters that aren't covered. That said, there are plenty of arthouse theaters in NYC that _are_ covered, so it's not a problem at all for me. A bigger issue (for some people) is that it doesn't cover 3D films and other such fancy versions of films that also have regular versions. I personally don't care (I don't like the 3D ones) but I imagine that could be undesirable. Though, technically, there's nothing to stop you from using moviepass to see those kinds of things, but it's against their rules, so if they catch you they could cancel your subscription. I'm not sure how aggressively they check up on those things though.
nodesocket 9y ago
If you want to see some stock market manipulation and “pump and dump” look at the parent company Helios and Matheson Analytics ($HMNY) 6 month graph — https://finance.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3AHMNY&ei=RAxFWtnTIIGC2Aaah52YDw https://finance.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3AHMNY&ei=RAxFWt...
- thebiglebrewski 9y ago
  Haha wat. Can anyone explain this?!
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - burkaman 9y ago
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-11/moviepass-backer-boosts-funding-warns-service-may-not-make-it https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-11/moviepass...
runwerks 9y ago
i've read that you can't 'pre-book' seats for theaters that have reserved seating a la fandango. you have to wait until you get to the theater to choose your seats. if they can fix this, i'll subscribe right away.
- Cerium 9y ago
  You sure can. My local theater shows you a seating map when you buy the tickets online. It's like buying an airplane ticket!
  - runwerks 9y ago
    nice, so do you have to do this directly with the theater chain or can you do something like fandango?
    - Cerium 9y ago
      I just checked, you can do either. For my local Century 16, they allow ticket purchase and reservation of seats to be done on either cinemark.com or fandango.com.
      - pwinnski 9y ago
        runwerks is asking about MoviePass. You are not answering the question they are asking.
- DerfNet 9y ago
  Some theaters let you reserve seats. In my region, none do. Luckily, in my region, most theaters do "$5 Tuesday", so everybody goes on Tuesday or Friday/Saturday night. Any other day of the week, at any time, is basically empty, so it's never been a problem.
- pwinnski 9y ago
  You have heard correctly. MoviePass requires you to be physically present at the theater before "checking in" to the movie for which you intend to purchase a ticket. Only then can you use the MoviePass Mastercard to buy your ticket. So you can pre-book and reserve seats, but only in person. If you live very close to a theater, you could pre-book at lunchtime and come back that evening to watch the movie, for example. It definitely requires you to be physically present, though. There is no online ticket-buying with MoviePass.
brownbat 9y ago
Let's run some numbers. MoviePass will buy all your movies in a month for $10. They plan to make it back on monetized data. So one user ups his monthly movie consumption from 1 to 12. Let's say they get tickets at a bargain, $10 each. MP is paying > $100 a month to find out what movies this guy wants to see but isn't actually willing to pay for.[0] That's puzzling enough, but, sure, data is a fun paradox, some kind of ubiquitous unobtanium, so for all I know they're getting it cheap. The actor in this story that really confuses me is AMC. "Not welcome here?" Why again? Listen AMC, I'm going to let you in on something. For every $10 "someone" pays MoviePass, they are willing to buy 30 tickets. No, look, no. I'm not saying "use proxies," like Redbox did to buy DVDs when the studios tried to cut them out of the system.[1] Because, while I have no idea whether that's legal, I do know you're terrified of "value" customers filling seats. Discount entertainment terrifies you because you make almost nothing on ticket sales and all your profit from high-priced concessions. You need whales in seats. It's classic f2p, just somehow with a magically sustainable[2] exorbitant cost of admission tacked on to help you rent content at a ridiculous premium.[3] So--drumoll--just advertise (hand out?) MoviePass subscriptions when people buy concessions. Anyone who already eats your food is already a w--, er, your target.[4] Not only will you get the MP ticket sales, so you can show foot traffic,[5] but also, bonus!--this will free up more of your customers' income for those ridiculously priced concessions. [0] I have some cars I'd love to own, so if anyone wants to buy them for me, I will let them know which ones. I'll sign a contract for exclusive use of that data and everything. [1] http://www.slashfilm.com/retail-conspires-against-redbox-by-limiting-dvd-purchases/ http://www.slashfilm.com/retail-conspires-against-redbox-by-... Honestly though, the studios are probably already using proxies to buy MP subscriptions, just like how publishing companies buy their own books in bulk to drive up numbers. [1a] If not, ahem, studios, I'm going to let you in on something... [1a] http://www.latimes.com/books/la-et-jc-handbook-for-mortals-bestseller-ya-20170824-story.html http://www.latimes.com/books/la-et-jc-handbook-for-mortals-b... [2] Well, "sustainable" is TBD. But hey, people still buy cable for some reason. Ok, bad analogy. Uh, people still listen to AM radio? Hang in there, you too can be the niche medium of the future. Just start advertising dubious health and investment products before the films, you'll get there. [3] Sidenote - This whole new releases model -- Basically the studios are trying to free ride on marketing? Which is the magic sauce that turns lousy movies into hits, so says NPR.[3a] What if AMC just played old indie marathons like the drive in, or the campus theater, for like a dollar a ticket, but advertised the hell out of them? Oh, right, value customers... Ok, go the other way. Follow the Karaoke Bangs where you can just stream whatever you want on a big screen in a small room, hang out with your friends, and maybe add steak dinners and champagne on demand. Just become a full service restaurant with private rooms that look like people's fantasy living room already. [3a] https://www.npr.org/2015/08/21/433402308/how-marketing-machines-can-make-lousy-movies-financially-successful https://www.npr.org/2015/08/21/433402308/how-marketing-machi... [4] Here's where I clumsily avoid turning 'whale' into some kind of lazy fat joke. Look, weight is tough, no one needs to pile on. But also look, AMC has promotions for bags of popcorn with over a thousand Calories and drinks that are nearly a liter and a half. Sure, popcorn is for "sharing," but how does 54 oz of sugar water fit in any healthy diet? You're making Big Tobacco look like... like... Michael Pollan. Atul Gawande? Something something health expert. [5] Welcome to the late 2010s, where the theory that eyeballs are better than revenue has been conclusively proven beyond any doubt, even if no one fully understands how.
greggarious 9y ago
Why buy a movie pass when I can just buy a ticket then theater hop after?
- burntwater 9y ago
  Because you have morals?
gnicholas 9y ago
> The real treasure in this venture, he contends, is the trove of data about consumer tastes and habits that MoviePass can collect. It hopes to sell that data to studio marketers. I wonder if the privacy-minded folks on HN are averse to this. Or is it ok since you're getting discounted movie tickets in return? I also wonder if they're going to take movie consumption data and marry it with other data they can glean about you (preferred theater location, residence and/or work from geolocation when you open the app, etc.). That data could be sold to folks other than just studios, since they can market related products or correlated products to you.
- jonny_eh 9y ago
  They're kinda beyond discounted. It's a discount if you see one film a month, but beyond that, it's basically free. It's such an insane value, I don't care if they know that I see every movie with a fresh tomato rating.
  - thaumaturgy 9y ago
    I kind of want to share my viewing habits with studios that are willing to listen. They've been turning out some real garbage the last few years. I'm fairly privacy-paranoid in general, but in this case, I'm maybe okay with it.
    - eat_veggies 9y ago
      It's because in this case, the value you're getting out of giving up your data is tangible and actually worth it. With facebook et al., not so much.
- Buge 9y ago
  If I use a credit card to buy tickets, they can already track what I'm watching. And that's not even mentioning MAC address tracking that some places do.
  - gnicholas 9y ago
gnicholas 9y ago
> Cinemark, the third-largest exhibitor, introduced its own subscription service in early December. For $8.99 a month, members can see one movie a month and receive a 20 percent discount on concessions, among other perks. So I can get 30 movies per month for $10 or 1 movie per month plus 20% off concessions for $9? It'd take a helluva lot of popcorn to make that math add up...
- michaelchisari 9y ago
  I don't see any way that the "one movie per day" model continues. At some point, they're going to cancel it and replace it with a significantly limited plan, and hope that a enough people stick with it anyways. Otherwise, it's just unsustainable. They've got to be burning through VC money like kindling.
  - gnicholas 9y ago
    I'm curious to know what the mean and median number of movies watched per customer are. I don't think you can see the same movie twice, and there are only so many movies that a given person would want to see in one month. From the consumer side, if people think they're going to see at least 2 movies per month, then this is a win. So the bar is pretty low, and I could see the mean/median being around 3.5 movies per month. I'm sure there are some heavy users, but there are probably also folks who forget to use it some months (but don't cancel).
    - michaelchisari 9y ago
      MoviePass does allow multiple viewings of the same movie, that was a mistake in TOS wording on their part. there are only so many movies that a given person would want to see in one month. True, for the given person you're thinking about. What about a person on disability? A cinephile? A teenager who has the whole summer off? It's a tragedy of the commons problem. If you have one movie nut who goes to 12 movies a month (not difficult if you live in a city a short bus ride or walk to a theater) then you need 11 users to forget they have it. The outliers have a potential 30x rate. Not to mention that those outliers could be going to IMAX 3D showings in a major city at a premium theater ($22.75 at the Chinese Theater, for instance), and you've got a $682.50 monthly bill for one user without violating the TOS. As far as I can tell they're treating this like a gym membership, but ignoring the fundamental difference: Going to the gym sucks, going to the movies is a blast. This is why I think as the service continues (and the money backing it dries up), they'll introduce more and more restrictions.
DrScump 9y ago
Is there a list of "participating" theaters anywhere? I've tried a dozen browser combinations (Chrome, Opera, mobile, in and out of Incognito mode, 3 devices, all with Javascript enabled for everyone) and can only get "Oops! Something went wrong!" with the map feature. I'd be fine with an ordered list but see no such option on their site.
DrScump 9y ago
There is a Costco promo for Moviepass + Fandor for $90/year, but it has a lot of negative reviews[0] this month (click on the "1 Star" bar in the review section; you can only navigate there via the javascript links). [0] https://www.costco.com/MoviePass-and-Fandor-12-Month-Subscription-eVoucher.product.100395930.html?pageSize=96&catalogId=10701&dept=All&langId=-1&keyword=moviepass&storeId=10301&krypto=5OUWCpTOg0jEC9gj8gRGtHWUs%2BZXTIIMuItxc5GbCDORpy05jHXBzrlXprjbBisndqEZWoNCdmLCFqqR8wlhUj4OOC1u5L3MyQtUeWJ200U%3D https://www.costco.com/MoviePass-and-Fandor-12-Month-Subscri... The Costco page stresses that you have to have a mobile device with the Moviepass app running when you check in at the theater, but Moviepass's own signup process doesn't say that.
bkor 9y ago
In Netherlands various cinemas have their own unlimited scheme. It's usually 19-20 EUR while still needing to pay extra for 3D/IMAX. One (Pathe) charges 28 EUR to avoid the surcharges. The price point of MoviePass is interesting and 24 USD (~20 EUR) is obviously much more than the 10 USD quoted here. Still, buying only at the theater is annoying. I prefer making a seat reservation and arriving max 5 minutes before the movie starts (there are loads of advertisements anyway). Downsize of the Dutch unlimited options: you still have to arrive at least 30 minutes early and this gets annoying really fast (30 minutes minimum early is 35-40 in practice plus the 10-15 minutes of watching advertisements you've seen before)... quickly turns into loads of wasted time. I tried when they had a special (4 months for 40 EUR, so 10 EUR/month).

80 points by dankohn1 9y ago

Better movies would help theaters out too... CGI still looks like CGI, even in 2017 it's pretty easy to identify a CGI helicopter or explosion. Then there's the eternal topic of throwing violence and sex scenes at the consumer in an attempt to spice up a mundane plot... when all that's needed is a better plot.

wmeredith 9y ago
The problem with "better movies" is it's totally subjective-film is art. For instance, I'd argue that the current quality of cinema has never been better. It's a mature medium with several mature distribution channels and the barriers to entry have never been lower. Some of the indie films that get produced these days are incredible. And the spectacle offered by blockbusters is truly breathtaking. Sure, there's a lot of bad movies released on both ends of the budget spectrum, but that has always been true. The theater experience on the other hand, is getting less and less appealing as home audio/video tech continues to improve at a furious pace.
- exabrial 9y ago
  Agree, it's always subjective; I didn't mean to imply that art is in any form deterministic. The items I criticized are things a general audience groans about movies both indie and blockbusters. I can think of a few recent examples that were good and bad. For instance, the plot in "Valerian" was fairly well done because there was a tension between the two main characters that we wanted to see resolved, despite the plot jumping around a bit from scene to scene. The plot in "Atomic Blonde" also jumped around, but there was no cohesion overall and the sex and violence scenes that followed were a yawn-inducing attempt to keep the viewer interested. I shut it off without finishing it and I haven't wondered how the movie ended. I love spy movies, and was hoping for another well-baked plot like "Jack Ryan: Shadow Recruit". To your last point, none of those movies I watched in a theater, I waited until they were released to my online video service and I could watch from the comfort of my couch. Thinking a bit more, I had low hopes for "Valerian" and "Jack Ryan", and high hopes for "Atomic Blonde", even though those turned out to be the opposite in reality. To my original point, I think that what killed the theater experience for me. I'm afraid to go spend $15 on a movie that _might_ suck. I'd rather spend half that and be able to leave if it's terrible.

Shivetya 9y ago

Damn if the article doesn't reek of being just one big advertisement for the service. It is written as if the theaters have no choice in the face of consumers wanting unrealistically cheap tickets. A service with such an unrealistic price per month that it should be impossible to lose subscribers and be just as impossible to be sustainable once early investor money dries up. It just reminds me of the worst of the early internet businesses, mainly all the grocery delivery attempts and now boutique dinner delivery services all the theater chains need to do is wait it out, count their money from all these effectively free patrons, and then launch their own if desired version. T

j1vms 9y ago
> and then launch their own if desired version. If that's what happens in the worst case, then that would be a significant change in the business model of theaters/theater chains - and by extension, the movie industry. And that is possibly the worst case now. Keep in mind the data this company is collecting from their subscribers could be used to help smaller theaters fill their seats at the expense of attendance at larger chains.
cmiles74 9y ago
If theaters launched their own service, it would be one service per theater. If you lived in an area with more than one chain, you'd either subscribe to both or only go to one theater chain. Or, more likely, eventually grow dissatisfied with the service and cancel. MoviePass is definitely making things easier for the consumer. One subscription, any theater at any time.
- Spivak 9y ago
  I think the value-add of 'you can go to any theater' is a tough sell. If the theater that I frequent offered a subscription that was any amount less than MP I would probably switch. Why would I drive further to see a movie?
  - colept 9y ago
    If I have a MoviePass I can go to any theatre. That means I can go watch a movie with my friend who lives in the Bay area, or my Grandmother who lives in Arizona. Your question, "Why would I drive further to see a movie?" is exactly why multi-chain subscription is superior. Because I don't always go to one theatre in one city.

BEEdwards 9y ago

I'm still not sure how this company makes money or how they make the theaters money. So they sell tickets for way under what they cost, they take their cut and pass it on to the theater and studio, and then claim money somehow that simply putting butts in seats is their value add. It just doesn't make sense.

landonxjames 9y ago
I've always heard that theaters make the majority of their profit on everything besides the ticket since most of that goes back to the distributors/studios. So I would imagine more butts in seats == more overpriced popcorn sold and potentially more profit.
wmeredith 9y ago
Putting butts in seats is a value add. It sells overpriced snacks, which has been the actual profit center for theaters for a couple decades now.
beisner 9y ago
Butts in seats is a huge value add if those butts are buying concessions.
- cyberpunk0 9y ago
  What the hell buys concessions in 2017? I don't know a single person throughout my entire life who doesn't just bringing something in from outside.
  - Touche 9y ago
    You don't have to personally know someone who does it to see people standing in lines at the concession when you walk in. I don't know how old you are, but at a certain point sneaking things into the theater is something you grow out of.
    - chrisseaton 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

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11thEarlOfMar 9y ago

I've been trying to recreate the movie experience at my house for decades: Large screen high definition display, high-end surround sound, etc. but it just does not work. Daylight, phones ringing, kids playing, dryer buzzer, and myriad distractions diminish the experience and I'm always left with notion that it's never as enjoyable at home. Theaters will always have a place in entertainment. And with the recent addition of la-z-boy furniture and reserved seating, there's simply no contest. Now, I want to experience all my favorite films in the communal environment of a theater. Would be great to be able to 'upvote' classic films and have them play at a local house, and watch along with others who like it enough to be there, place and time. Maybe that's where MoviePass is headed?

bobcostas55 9y ago
This exists in the UK: ourscreen.com. Seems to work well.
gnopgnip 9y ago
If you are in the Bay Area Alameda Theatre does this on Wednesdays. New Parkway does it from time to time also. Both are covered by Moviepass.
- evanb 9y ago
  New Parkway also screens episodes of MST3K, it's quite a fun audience.
friedButter 9y ago
> Would be great to be able to 'upvote' classic films and have them play at a local house, and watch along with others who like it enough to be there, place and time A theater chain in India is trying something similar, though at full price and not discounted like moviepass http://indianexpress.com/article/technology/tech-news-technology/pvr-cinemas-launches-its-theatre-on-demand-service-vkaao-483689/ http://indianexpress.com/article/technology/tech-news-techno...
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

Touche 9y ago

I'm sad to hear this honestly, I was hoping for this to fail to hasten studios accepting that straight-to-digital is the future. Charge me $50 per movie to watch them from the comfort of my home, please.

ac29 9y ago
That's existed for a while, but the price is a little eye-popping: $35k for the hardware and $500/rental. There doesn't seem to be much written about it online since 2016, so its possible its defunct or nearly so. http://www.primacinema.com/ http://www.primacinema.com/
- Touche 9y ago
  IIRC to even buy that you have to have a home theater. They come to your house and inspect to make sure it meets their standards. So yeah, it's not just the price, it's essentially a status product; meant only for the super-rich to show off that they have a home theater.
krapp 9y ago
>Charge me $50 per movie to watch them from the comfort of my home, please. Studios are probably too afraid of piracy to accept that - theatrical distribution is an effective means of restricting content distribution and of quality control.
- Touche 9y ago
  You are probably right, but I'm not sure it's rational. Given the correct pricing to compensate for that, they can still make more money that they make today. I believe I read that the average person sees 2 or 3 movies per year at the theater. Imagine how many they might purchase from home.
manmal 9y ago
Whoa $50 would be way too much. 20 perhaps.. not sure I‘d sacrifice the full experience and awesome sound system at that price.

igaape 9y ago

Is movie pass applicable at all movie theatres?? Trying to do the math to see the value

allemagne 9y ago
Their materials carefully imply that they aren't, but in my experience all theaters are pretty much covered. Even the small artsy theater ran by a local non-profit.
- joemi 9y ago
  In my experience, most of the theaters in NYC are covered (including all the AMCs) but there are a small few arthouse theaters that aren't covered. That said, there are plenty of arthouse theaters in NYC that _are_ covered, so it's not a problem at all for me. A bigger issue (for some people) is that it doesn't cover 3D films and other such fancy versions of films that also have regular versions. I personally don't care (I don't like the 3D ones) but I imagine that could be undesirable. Though, technically, there's nothing to stop you from using moviepass to see those kinds of things, but it's against their rules, so if they catch you they could cancel your subscription. I'm not sure how aggressively they check up on those things though.

nodesocket 9y ago

If you want to see some stock market manipulation and “pump and dump” look at the parent company Helios and Matheson Analytics ($HMNY) 6 month graph — https://finance.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3AHMNY&ei=RAxFWtnTIIGC2Aaah52YDw https://finance.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3AHMNY&ei=RAxFWt...

thebiglebrewski 9y ago
Haha wat. Can anyone explain this?!
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- burkaman 9y ago
  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-11/moviepass-backer-boosts-funding-warns-service-may-not-make-it https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-11/moviepass...

runwerks 9y ago

i've read that you can't 'pre-book' seats for theaters that have reserved seating a la fandango. you have to wait until you get to the theater to choose your seats. if they can fix this, i'll subscribe right away.

Cerium 9y ago
You sure can. My local theater shows you a seating map when you buy the tickets online. It's like buying an airplane ticket!
- runwerks 9y ago
  nice, so do you have to do this directly with the theater chain or can you do something like fandango?
  - Cerium 9y ago
    I just checked, you can do either. For my local Century 16, they allow ticket purchase and reservation of seats to be done on either cinemark.com or fandango.com.
    - pwinnski 9y ago
      runwerks is asking about MoviePass. You are not answering the question they are asking.
DerfNet 9y ago
Some theaters let you reserve seats. In my region, none do. Luckily, in my region, most theaters do "$5 Tuesday", so everybody goes on Tuesday or Friday/Saturday night. Any other day of the week, at any time, is basically empty, so it's never been a problem.
pwinnski 9y ago
You have heard correctly. MoviePass requires you to be physically present at the theater before "checking in" to the movie for which you intend to purchase a ticket. Only then can you use the MoviePass Mastercard to buy your ticket. So you can pre-book and reserve seats, but only in person. If you live very close to a theater, you could pre-book at lunchtime and come back that evening to watch the movie, for example. It definitely requires you to be physically present, though. There is no online ticket-buying with MoviePass.

brownbat 9y ago

Let's run some numbers. MoviePass will buy all your movies in a month for $10. They plan to make it back on monetized data. So one user ups his monthly movie consumption from 1 to 12. Let's say they get tickets at a bargain, $10 each. MP is paying > $100 a month to find out what movies this guy wants to see but isn't actually willing to pay for.[0] That's puzzling enough, but, sure, data is a fun paradox, some kind of ubiquitous unobtanium, so for all I know they're getting it cheap. The actor in this story that really confuses me is AMC. "Not welcome here?" Why again? Listen AMC, I'm going to let you in on something. For every $10 "someone" pays MoviePass, they are willing to buy 30 tickets. No, look, no. I'm not saying "use proxies," like Redbox did to buy DVDs when the studios tried to cut them out of the system.[1] Because, while I have no idea whether that's legal, I do know you're terrified of "value" customers filling seats. Discount entertainment terrifies you because you make almost nothing on ticket sales and all your profit from high-priced concessions. You need whales in seats. It's classic f2p, just somehow with a magically sustainable[2] exorbitant cost of admission tacked on to help you rent content at a ridiculous premium.[3] So--drumoll--just advertise (hand out?) MoviePass subscriptions when people buy concessions. Anyone who already eats your food is already a w--, er, your target.[4] Not only will you get the MP ticket sales, so you can show foot traffic,[5] but also, bonus!--this will free up more of your customers' income for those ridiculously priced concessions. [0] I have some cars I'd love to own, so if anyone wants to buy them for me, I will let them know which ones. I'll sign a contract for exclusive use of that data and everything. [1] http://www.slashfilm.com/retail-conspires-against-redbox-by-limiting-dvd-purchases/ http://www.slashfilm.com/retail-conspires-against-redbox-by-... Honestly though, the studios are probably already using proxies to buy MP subscriptions, just like how publishing companies buy their own books in bulk to drive up numbers. [1a] If not, ahem, studios, I'm going to let you in on something... [1a] http://www.latimes.com/books/la-et-jc-handbook-for-mortals-bestseller-ya-20170824-story.html http://www.latimes.com/books/la-et-jc-handbook-for-mortals-b... [2] Well, "sustainable" is TBD. But hey, people still buy cable for some reason. Ok, bad analogy. Uh, people still listen to AM radio? Hang in there, you too can be the niche medium of the future. Just start advertising dubious health and investment products before the films, you'll get there. [3] Sidenote - This whole new releases model -- Basically the studios are trying to free ride on marketing? Which is the magic sauce that turns lousy movies into hits, so says NPR.[3a] What if AMC just played old indie marathons like the drive in, or the campus theater, for like a dollar a ticket, but advertised the hell out of them? Oh, right, value customers... Ok, go the other way. Follow the Karaoke Bangs where you can just stream whatever you want on a big screen in a small room, hang out with your friends, and maybe add steak dinners and champagne on demand. Just become a full service restaurant with private rooms that look like people's fantasy living room already. [3a] https://www.npr.org/2015/08/21/433402308/how-marketing-machines-can-make-lousy-movies-financially-successful https://www.npr.org/2015/08/21/433402308/how-marketing-machi... [4] Here's where I clumsily avoid turning 'whale' into some kind of lazy fat joke. Look, weight is tough, no one needs to pile on. But also look, AMC has promotions for bags of popcorn with over a thousand Calories and drinks that are nearly a liter and a half. Sure, popcorn is for "sharing," but how does 54 oz of sugar water fit in any healthy diet? You're making Big Tobacco look like... like... Michael Pollan. Atul Gawande? Something something health expert. [5] Welcome to the late 2010s, where the theory that eyeballs are better than revenue has been conclusively proven beyond any doubt, even if no one fully understands how.

greggarious 9y ago

Why buy a movie pass when I can just buy a ticket then theater hop after?

burntwater 9y ago
Because you have morals?

gnicholas 9y ago

> The real treasure in this venture, he contends, is the trove of data about consumer tastes and habits that MoviePass can collect. It hopes to sell that data to studio marketers. I wonder if the privacy-minded folks on HN are averse to this. Or is it ok since you're getting discounted movie tickets in return? I also wonder if they're going to take movie consumption data and marry it with other data they can glean about you (preferred theater location, residence and/or work from geolocation when you open the app, etc.). That data could be sold to folks other than just studios, since they can market related products or correlated products to you.

jonny_eh 9y ago
They're kinda beyond discounted. It's a discount if you see one film a month, but beyond that, it's basically free. It's such an insane value, I don't care if they know that I see every movie with a fresh tomato rating.
- thaumaturgy 9y ago
  I kind of want to share my viewing habits with studios that are willing to listen. They've been turning out some real garbage the last few years. I'm fairly privacy-paranoid in general, but in this case, I'm maybe okay with it.
  - eat_veggies 9y ago
    It's because in this case, the value you're getting out of giving up your data is tangible and actually worth it. With facebook et al., not so much.
Buge 9y ago
If I use a credit card to buy tickets, they can already track what I'm watching. And that's not even mentioning MAC address tracking that some places do.
- gnicholas 9y ago

gnicholas 9y ago

> Cinemark, the third-largest exhibitor, introduced its own subscription service in early December. For $8.99 a month, members can see one movie a month and receive a 20 percent discount on concessions, among other perks. So I can get 30 movies per month for $10 or 1 movie per month plus 20% off concessions for $9? It'd take a helluva lot of popcorn to make that math add up...

michaelchisari 9y ago
I don't see any way that the "one movie per day" model continues. At some point, they're going to cancel it and replace it with a significantly limited plan, and hope that a enough people stick with it anyways. Otherwise, it's just unsustainable. They've got to be burning through VC money like kindling.
- gnicholas 9y ago
  I'm curious to know what the mean and median number of movies watched per customer are. I don't think you can see the same movie twice, and there are only so many movies that a given person would want to see in one month. From the consumer side, if people think they're going to see at least 2 movies per month, then this is a win. So the bar is pretty low, and I could see the mean/median being around 3.5 movies per month. I'm sure there are some heavy users, but there are probably also folks who forget to use it some months (but don't cancel).
  - michaelchisari 9y ago
    MoviePass does allow multiple viewings of the same movie, that was a mistake in TOS wording on their part. there are only so many movies that a given person would want to see in one month. True, for the given person you're thinking about. What about a person on disability? A cinephile? A teenager who has the whole summer off? It's a tragedy of the commons problem. If you have one movie nut who goes to 12 movies a month (not difficult if you live in a city a short bus ride or walk to a theater) then you need 11 users to forget they have it. The outliers have a potential 30x rate. Not to mention that those outliers could be going to IMAX 3D showings in a major city at a premium theater ($22.75 at the Chinese Theater, for instance), and you've got a $682.50 monthly bill for one user without violating the TOS. As far as I can tell they're treating this like a gym membership, but ignoring the fundamental difference: Going to the gym sucks, going to the movies is a blast. This is why I think as the service continues (and the money backing it dries up), they'll introduce more and more restrictions.

DrScump 9y ago

Is there a list of "participating" theaters anywhere? I've tried a dozen browser combinations (Chrome, Opera, mobile, in and out of Incognito mode, 3 devices, all with Javascript enabled for everyone) and can only get "Oops! Something went wrong!" with the map feature. I'd be fine with an ordered list but see no such option on their site.

DrScump 9y ago

There is a Costco promo for Moviepass + Fandor for $90/year, but it has a lot of negative reviews[0] this month (click on the "1 Star" bar in the review section; you can only navigate there via the javascript links). [0] https://www.costco.com/MoviePass-and-Fandor-12-Month-Subscription-eVoucher.product.100395930.html?pageSize=96&catalogId=10701&dept=All&langId=-1&keyword=moviepass&storeId=10301&krypto=5OUWCpTOg0jEC9gj8gRGtHWUs%2BZXTIIMuItxc5GbCDORpy05jHXBzrlXprjbBisndqEZWoNCdmLCFqqR8wlhUj4OOC1u5L3MyQtUeWJ200U%3D https://www.costco.com/MoviePass-and-Fandor-12-Month-Subscri... The Costco page stresses that you have to have a mobile device with the Moviepass app running when you check in at the theater, but Moviepass's own signup process doesn't say that.

bkor 9y ago

In Netherlands various cinemas have their own unlimited scheme. It's usually 19-20 EUR while still needing to pay extra for 3D/IMAX. One (Pathe) charges 28 EUR to avoid the surcharges. The price point of MoviePass is interesting and 24 USD (~20 EUR) is obviously much more than the 10 USD quoted here. Still, buying only at the theater is annoying. I prefer making a seat reservation and arriving max 5 minutes before the movie starts (there are loads of advertisements anyway). Downsize of the Dutch unlimited options: you still have to arrive at least 30 minutes early and this gets annoying really fast (30 minutes minimum early is 35-40 in practice plus the 10-15 minutes of watching advertisements you've seen before)... quickly turns into loads of wasted time. I tried when they had a special (4 months for 40 EUR, so 10 EUR/month).