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These are mostly outsourcing companies. India's IT industry is realigning towards domestic markets and #MakeInIndia companies - it is more aspirational to join

These are mostly outsourcing companies. India's IT industry is realigning towards domestic markets and #MakeInIndia companies - it is more aspirational to join Paytm, Ola, Zomato in India than to work for a US based outsourcer. It is not even a competition anymore - I'm able to very easily get highly qualified Indians in Silicon Valley to move back and work on something cool in India. This is the reason that nobody in India (incl the govt) gives a shit about the H1B rule changes in the US. The entire focus of the IT industry is shifting to move up the value chain. We are trying to build more Freshdesk in India and sell them to the world... Rather than body shopping. It is going to be a time of massive upheaval as a lot of jobs will be lost - both as a consequence of the US pushback on visas as well as the change in strategic focus.

blocked_again 9y ago
> I'm able to very easily get highly qualified Indians in Silicon Valley to move back and work on something cool in India. We understand your sentimence. But please don't exaggerate too much :)
- siddharthdeswal 9y ago
  I'm Indian and I agree with you. Parent overdid it a little bit. People gives many shits about the H1B, and it isn't that easy to pull Indians back from the US. Relatively easier than say ten years ago, but not at the level of bravado that parent exhibits.
  - sandGorgon 9y ago
    This is not incorrect. YMMV obviously...but I stand by what I say. However you misunderstood the reason - they are not coming because of me. They were coming back anyway because they want to work in India and build something here. That was my point all along - I'm not uniquely positioned. It's happening all over.
    - kamaal 9y ago
      >>They were coming back anyway because they want to work in India and build something here. As a former NRI, who stayed in the US. Not one person I know has/or-is moving back because they want to 'build stuff here'. Most of the times its unworkable visa situations, old parents or something on those lines at play.
      - sandGorgon 9y ago
        I suggest you go and check the senior leadership on LinkedIn for the current stream of startups and large companies. Even more - we have expats actually building successful and highly funded startups in India. Take a look at Zoomcar, Zestmoney and CreditMate. India is extremely startup friendly for foreigners - maybe not as friendly as the US, but definitely more than Europe, China, etc. We are one of the world's largest consumer internet and smartphone market ... oh and with strong net neutrality guarantees. Everyone wants to tap into that. India is moving very differently now ! In the last week, I have had 2 conversations with CXO level leadership of companies in the Bay Area, who want to move back to India and build startups here. I get to do this a lot because I run one of the earliest YC funded companies in India (when it was "special" for YC to fund an Indian startup). I end up being the sounding board for a lot of CXO level talent moving back to India. BTW - Indian startups form the second largest pool for YC applications now (after the US). Not sure what the funding stats are.
        tejaswiy 9y ago
        That is still very much a small minority. For the average Indian programmer in the US, there's very little incentive to move back to India purely for professional prospects. Let's face it, I'd much rather code for Amazon in Seattle than Flipkart in Bangalore. Other factors like the shitty visa situation (more and more people are chosing to move to Canada because of their permanent residency requirements), family ties and some more ethereal things like the pull of the motherland come into play. As an Indian in the US with maybe 70-80 people from my undergraduate class in the US, a grand total of one person went back to India to build a startup despite having a succesful career.
volgo 9y ago
FYI all these new high tech "Made In India" companies are backed by Chinese investors. PayTM and Zomato are largely backed by Alibaba, Ola backed by Tencent,
- aksx 9y ago
  Financially. Engineers are still Indians
kamaal 9y ago
>>it is more aspirational to join Paytm, Ola, Zomato in India than to work for a US based outsourcer. Its hilarious you mention this. Those companies are in double digit billion $ debt, with no sight of returning even a single $ in profit back to their investors. Snapdeal recently bombed. Ola and Flipkart are next. >>It is not even a competition anymore Competition between whom. IT services firms haven't posted a loss making quarter in their history. And Product firms in India haven't posted a profit making in their history. Which is the real trash here? >>I'm able to very easily get highly qualified Indians in Silicon Valley to move back and work on something cool in India. They won't unless you beat Bay Area salaries and award stock options graciously. And that will happen only if you have massive VC backing. Also no one is going to quit their job in a first world country for loss. >>This is the reason that nobody in India (incl the govt) gives a shit about the H1B rule changes in the US. A lot of people do. >>The entire focus of the IT industry is shifting to move up the value chain. Increased salaries on VCs expense doesn't mean we are moving up the value chain. >>We are trying to build more Freshdesk in India and sell them to the world... Rather than body shopping. We were doing that before as well. The IT services firms you see today all started as product companies. In fact they were doing far more tech intensive work than the current breed of product companies will ever do. Most old IT services were early product companies that made banking sotware, embedded systems products and other stuff. The start reality in India is without a VC pumping billions of $s and then ready to write off, all of it. You largely depend of debt(Why do you think real estate is so hard in India), or you have to bootstrap. If you bootstrap you need the financial discipline of a demon. You certainly can't pay Bay Area salaries to build MVP apps and write HTML/JS. Most embedded systems start ups which are not in VC fashion catalogue pay peanuts even today. The sad part of software engineer salaries in India is either US companies pay it, or VCs pay it. If you have to bootstrap, you have to pay atleast 5x less than what somebody like Flipkart pays today.
- tschwimmer 9y ago
  Citation on FlipKart and Ola being billions of debt? Not overtly doubting, but curious.
  - kamaal 9y ago

blocked_again 9y ago

> I'm able to very easily get highly qualified Indians in Silicon Valley to move back and work on something cool in India. We understand your sentimence. But please don't exaggerate too much :)

siddharthdeswal 9y ago
I'm Indian and I agree with you. Parent overdid it a little bit. People gives many shits about the H1B, and it isn't that easy to pull Indians back from the US. Relatively easier than say ten years ago, but not at the level of bravado that parent exhibits.
- sandGorgon 9y ago
  This is not incorrect. YMMV obviously...but I stand by what I say. However you misunderstood the reason - they are not coming because of me. They were coming back anyway because they want to work in India and build something here. That was my point all along - I'm not uniquely positioned. It's happening all over.
  - kamaal 9y ago
    >>They were coming back anyway because they want to work in India and build something here. As a former NRI, who stayed in the US. Not one person I know has/or-is moving back because they want to 'build stuff here'. Most of the times its unworkable visa situations, old parents or something on those lines at play.
    - sandGorgon 9y ago
      I suggest you go and check the senior leadership on LinkedIn for the current stream of startups and large companies. Even more - we have expats actually building successful and highly funded startups in India. Take a look at Zoomcar, Zestmoney and CreditMate. India is extremely startup friendly for foreigners - maybe not as friendly as the US, but definitely more than Europe, China, etc. We are one of the world's largest consumer internet and smartphone market ... oh and with strong net neutrality guarantees. Everyone wants to tap into that. India is moving very differently now ! In the last week, I have had 2 conversations with CXO level leadership of companies in the Bay Area, who want to move back to India and build startups here. I get to do this a lot because I run one of the earliest YC funded companies in India (when it was "special" for YC to fund an Indian startup). I end up being the sounding board for a lot of CXO level talent moving back to India. BTW - Indian startups form the second largest pool for YC applications now (after the US). Not sure what the funding stats are.
      - tejaswiy 9y ago
        That is still very much a small minority. For the average Indian programmer in the US, there's very little incentive to move back to India purely for professional prospects. Let's face it, I'd much rather code for Amazon in Seattle than Flipkart in Bangalore. Other factors like the shitty visa situation (more and more people are chosing to move to Canada because of their permanent residency requirements), family ties and some more ethereal things like the pull of the motherland come into play. As an Indian in the US with maybe 70-80 people from my undergraduate class in the US, a grand total of one person went back to India to build a startup despite having a succesful career.

volgo 9y ago

FYI all these new high tech "Made In India" companies are backed by Chinese investors. PayTM and Zomato are largely backed by Alibaba, Ola backed by Tencent,

aksx 9y ago
Financially. Engineers are still Indians

kamaal 9y ago

>>it is more aspirational to join Paytm, Ola, Zomato in India than to work for a US based outsourcer. Its hilarious you mention this. Those companies are in double digit billion $ debt, with no sight of returning even a single $ in profit back to their investors. Snapdeal recently bombed. Ola and Flipkart are next. >>It is not even a competition anymore Competition between whom. IT services firms haven't posted a loss making quarter in their history. And Product firms in India haven't posted a profit making in their history. Which is the real trash here? >>I'm able to very easily get highly qualified Indians in Silicon Valley to move back and work on something cool in India. They won't unless you beat Bay Area salaries and award stock options graciously. And that will happen only if you have massive VC backing. Also no one is going to quit their job in a first world country for loss. >>This is the reason that nobody in India (incl the govt) gives a shit about the H1B rule changes in the US. A lot of people do. >>The entire focus of the IT industry is shifting to move up the value chain. Increased salaries on VCs expense doesn't mean we are moving up the value chain. >>We are trying to build more Freshdesk in India and sell them to the world... Rather than body shopping. We were doing that before as well. The IT services firms you see today all started as product companies. In fact they were doing far more tech intensive work than the current breed of product companies will ever do. Most old IT services were early product companies that made banking sotware, embedded systems products and other stuff. The start reality in India is without a VC pumping billions of $s and then ready to write off, all of it. You largely depend of debt(Why do you think real estate is so hard in India), or you have to bootstrap. If you bootstrap you need the financial discipline of a demon. You certainly can't pay Bay Area salaries to build MVP apps and write HTML/JS. Most embedded systems start ups which are not in VC fashion catalogue pay peanuts even today. The sad part of software engineer salaries in India is either US companies pay it, or VCs pay it. If you have to bootstrap, you have to pay atleast 5x less than what somebody like Flipkart pays today.

tschwimmer 9y ago
Citation on FlipKart and Ola being billions of debt? Not overtly doubting, but curious.
- kamaal 9y ago