4 ms·

I see a pattern, based on this article and in my daily life. A lot of these processes and ridiculous terminologies are usually created by managers who have no r

I see a pattern, based on this article and in my daily life. A lot of these processes and ridiculous terminologies are usually created by managers who have no real hard skill. Instead of doing any real work this is what they come up with in order to validate themselves. What does the delegator do when the work has all been delegated? Nothing absolutely nothing and that’s where all these ideas, terminologies mentioned in this article come from. IMO the best managers are the people who have hard skills and leadership skills as a combination. They are able to solve their own problems and help other people solve their problems, and are able to ensure everyone on their team comes out with a net positive on happiness.

knolan 9y ago
Thank you, you articulated my exact feelings. The stereotypical manager is often classified as the failed engineer. I’ve certainly seen it happen where managers are the smooth talking bullshitters who can’t cross the street without help while the more introverted types continue to do all the heavy lifting.
pimmen 9y ago
I don’t necessarily believe that managers need hard skills relevant to the business (and I say this as an engineer). However, they need to be crystal clear on what they manage (wether it’s just a team, department or entire company) is supposed to deliver and how it will be evaluated. If they don’t know this they can’t prioritize and they can’t ask the relevant questions to the experts to help them with that. This brings me to the second thing Managers really need; they need to be able to listen. The manager is there to manage, he or she is not there to build stuff and thus he or she has to acknowledge that they don’t know as mych about the problems facing the project as the experts. A manager needs the experts’ opinions to guide them towards the best decision. Plenty of managers can talk (that’s one of the readons they were noticed by their superiors) but few can listen and are thus oblivious to what should be prioritized above what (I work mainly on the backend, I had to basically force the issue of load testing before launch into meeting after meeting but my manager was very interested in the colors of the GUI) and which problems will take a lot of work and which could be fixed in 15 minutes. If you want a manager with hard skills as good as yours, wouldn’t you rather have them as a member of the team instead?
- artellectual 9y ago
  I agree when you say 'They need to listen' but the ability to listen requires a lot of time and experience working in the trenches. How can someone sympathize with the people they are managing if they've never put themselves in other people's shoes on a day to day basis. How are they ever going to offer solutions to problems that crop up when they have minimal or no domain knowledge? Most managers I talk to are all about the 'power' over people. When I meet them a a social gathering and ask them what they do the replies are usually along the lines of "I manage 5 people on a daily basis" or "I have 10 people under me". It just shows the mindset of these so called, manager so clearly. Management is something of an art, don't get me wrong. It is a very important skill, what I'm saying is to be a good manager you need to have the 'hard skill' it's a prerequisite to being a good manager.
Sacho 9y ago
> What does the delegator do when the work has all been delegated? Nothing absolutely nothing and that’s where all these ideas, terminologies mentioned in this article come from. Delegating work is still work which needs to be done. In a large organization, figuring out which work to delegate to who is a full-time job. Just creating the (ever-changing) structure of the company - what positions you have, what responsibilities they take, etc - is also a pretty hefty effort, done by managers. It's difficult for me to not parallel your "no hard skill" complaint with how farmers in my country complain that programmers "don't create any physical product" but get paid more. Organizing even small numbers of people(10-20) calls for someone with quality soft skills, otherwise the efficiency of everyone drops significantly.
- artellectual 9y ago
  I think you misunderstand my point about 'hard skill'. When I say 'hard skill' I mean any kind of skill contributing to the product (by product I mean the actual product and working with the customer). Whether it's physical goods or providing some kind of service. As for the point about farmers complaining programmers don't create 'physical' product that's a whole different discussion. That complaint is coming from someone who due to whatever constraint hasn't taken the time to understand, the nature of the software business.

knolan 9y ago

Thank you, you articulated my exact feelings. The stereotypical manager is often classified as the failed engineer. I’ve certainly seen it happen where managers are the smooth talking bullshitters who can’t cross the street without help while the more introverted types continue to do all the heavy lifting.

pimmen 9y ago

I don’t necessarily believe that managers need hard skills relevant to the business (and I say this as an engineer). However, they need to be crystal clear on what they manage (wether it’s just a team, department or entire company) is supposed to deliver and how it will be evaluated. If they don’t know this they can’t prioritize and they can’t ask the relevant questions to the experts to help them with that. This brings me to the second thing Managers really need; they need to be able to listen. The manager is there to manage, he or she is not there to build stuff and thus he or she has to acknowledge that they don’t know as mych about the problems facing the project as the experts. A manager needs the experts’ opinions to guide them towards the best decision. Plenty of managers can talk (that’s one of the readons they were noticed by their superiors) but few can listen and are thus oblivious to what should be prioritized above what (I work mainly on the backend, I had to basically force the issue of load testing before launch into meeting after meeting but my manager was very interested in the colors of the GUI) and which problems will take a lot of work and which could be fixed in 15 minutes. If you want a manager with hard skills as good as yours, wouldn’t you rather have them as a member of the team instead?

artellectual 9y ago
I agree when you say 'They need to listen' but the ability to listen requires a lot of time and experience working in the trenches. How can someone sympathize with the people they are managing if they've never put themselves in other people's shoes on a day to day basis. How are they ever going to offer solutions to problems that crop up when they have minimal or no domain knowledge? Most managers I talk to are all about the 'power' over people. When I meet them a a social gathering and ask them what they do the replies are usually along the lines of "I manage 5 people on a daily basis" or "I have 10 people under me". It just shows the mindset of these so called, manager so clearly. Management is something of an art, don't get me wrong. It is a very important skill, what I'm saying is to be a good manager you need to have the 'hard skill' it's a prerequisite to being a good manager.

Sacho 9y ago

> What does the delegator do when the work has all been delegated? Nothing absolutely nothing and that’s where all these ideas, terminologies mentioned in this article come from. Delegating work is still work which needs to be done. In a large organization, figuring out which work to delegate to who is a full-time job. Just creating the (ever-changing) structure of the company - what positions you have, what responsibilities they take, etc - is also a pretty hefty effort, done by managers. It's difficult for me to not parallel your "no hard skill" complaint with how farmers in my country complain that programmers "don't create any physical product" but get paid more. Organizing even small numbers of people(10-20) calls for someone with quality soft skills, otherwise the efficiency of everyone drops significantly.

artellectual 9y ago
I think you misunderstand my point about 'hard skill'. When I say 'hard skill' I mean any kind of skill contributing to the product (by product I mean the actual product and working with the customer). Whether it's physical goods or providing some kind of service. As for the point about farmers complaining programmers don't create 'physical' product that's a whole different discussion. That complaint is coming from someone who due to whatever constraint hasn't taken the time to understand, the nature of the software business.