11 ms·

This is an incredibly fanboy-y article even by Gruber standards. I'm not sure he's physically capable of criticizing Apple, even if he wanted to.

dpcx 9y ago
While it does read as a fanboy article, Gruber has criticized Apple at least a few times in the past. Here's one example, in particular. https://daringfireball.net/linked/2016/04/08/snell-3d-touch https://daringfireball.net/linked/2016/04/08/snell-3d-touch
- ZeroGravitas 9y ago
  When I first read Gruber he spent quite a bit of his time attacking Apple for abandoning lots of the good stuff from OS9 in favor of the promise offered by the (relatively) clean but at-the-time untested underpinnings of OSX.
- lern_too_spel 9y ago
  Until he says Apple screwed up so bad that he recommends another company's product, he can only be called a shill.
  - jgruber 9y ago
    Which products do you think I should recommend a competing product over Apple's? On phones, tablets, and computers, I personally much prefer Apple's OSes, and I usually prefer their hardware as well. But even when I don't prefer Apple's hardware, the OS wins out. I don't recommend Apple's wi-fi base stations: https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1370753 https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1370753
    - lern_too_spel 9y ago
      And why haven't you written anything about which WiFi base station you recommend? Because it isn't an Apple device? Everybody has a WiFi base station, while relatively few people have a smart watch or a programmable TV set top box, so noteworthiness is definitely not the reason. On phones, tablets, and computers; your opinions are laughably one-sided, pooh-poohing all the things that Apple gets wrong, while making up issues with competitor products out of whole cloth. Your writing on Apple's long-delayed deployment of third party multitasking and its eventual copying of Android's Activity model, having worse battery life than the competition this the entire time, was especially cringeworthy.
      - armadsen 9y ago
        He has talked pretty frequently about how he has and likes Eero’s products on his podcast.
        calibration263 9y ago
        They also happen to be a sponsor of the podcast, so I could understand why he hasn't written a glowing review on DF.
        lern_too_spel 9y ago
        He likes Eero like the radio DJ likes Comcast and Sleep Train. There is no attempt to justify his recommendation, certainly not the massive effort and contortions he puts into recommending every Apple product. https://daringfireball.net/linked/2016/12/10/eero-wifi-system https://daringfireball.net/linked/2016/12/10/eero-wifi-syste... https://daringfireball.net/feeds/sponsors/2017/12/eero https://daringfireball.net/feeds/sponsors/2017/12/eero
    - Mindwipe 9y ago
      Photos seems like a good example of a product that is in such a mess that you should be discussing what a general user should use instead at this point. You even confess in the recent post about Marzipan about what a debacle drag and drop not working for a year in Photos is. But you've never written a piece about "why is Photos in such a mess"? Because it is. Basics of the platform still don't work, more than a year later (export original files and watch it hang, with no progress indicator! Drag and drop between applications is a joke!). Why not turn some light on that, why not discuss alternatives than general users should be looking at instead?
  - charlesgres 9y ago
    The way I read that is that you're a shill as soon as you say something (even slightly) positive about Apple.. I guess for an Android fan it's not a tough call to be cleared of the 'shill' label, because there's plenty of fucking up going on in that world that even the diehard fans have to admit to it.. If only Apple would do us Apple fans the favor of royally fucking up from time to time so that we can stop being accused of being shills.. But alas they never do.. What a pity..
jws 9y ago
Perhaps the best way to extract information from Gruber is to analyze which Apple products he does not write about.
mcphage 9y ago
> This is an incredibly fanboy-y article even by Gruber standards. Agreed... this was the most Gruber-y he's ever Grubered: "Is the higher price of the iPhone X over the iPhones 8 justified? [...] But you also get something you can’t compare in a checkmark comparison — a sort of joie de vivre." > I'm not sure he's physically capable of criticizing Apple, even if he wanted to. That's definitely not true. While he generally likes their products, he's definitely critical of them when he thinks they mess up. If all you read of his are these posts shared on HN, you'll probably only read his glowing reviews. And if you don't like his writing, then sure, there's no point in seeking him out. But don't assume that because you don't read his criticisms, that he doesn't—can't!—write them, because he most assuredly does.
- brian-armstrong 9y ago
  There was some stretch of time where I'd visit his blog once every week or so and catch up. He has a tendency to take Apple flaws and spin them as good things. Even when he does criticize Apple it's only half heartedly. I'm not sure who wins the spin competition between him and Paul Thurrott
  - lern_too_spel 9y ago
    Definitely Gruber. I've seen Thurrot recommend products from more than one company. Gruber, never. If Apple has a product in the space, only the Apple product is worth buying, no matter how objectively bad it is.
    - mcphage 9y ago
      > I've seen Thurrot recommend products from more than one company. Gruber, never. That's also definitely not true. He's been a big supporter of Amazon's Echo line, he's mentioned a number of Android phones he likes—hell, on his front page right now he links glowingly to an article about how much better Google Maps is than Apple Maps.
      - lern_too_spel 9y ago
mikestew 9y ago
My take on Gruber is to not take him seriously. Don't take his recommendations, he'll flip on a dime. For example, when the Pebble was announced he was first in line on the Kickstarter. It shipped, he liked it. As soon as the Apple Watch came out, the Pebble was suddenly a piece of shit. I'm also convinced that he recommends things that he's either never used, or took money to recommend. An outstanding example is a weather app he gushed about that I'm convinced he never used because it was horrible (as in, the forecasts weren't even close), and the visual design was something he'd typically tear into. For me, Gruber is in the "Dvorak/Cringley" bucket: entertaining, sometimes on point, but for $DEITY's sake don't take it for gospel. But despite all that, I read every post.
- stcredzero 9y ago
  It shipped, he liked it. As soon as the Apple Watch came out, the Pebble was suddenly a piece of shit. Isn't that how it works? My 15" GTX 1070 laptop used to be the bees knees. So amazing and compact for a laptop that could support VR. Now, in comparison to some stunning Max-Q designs, it's now pretty meh.
- doe88 9y ago
  I don't have anything against him, I think in the iPhone X case he might deservedly be lauding Apple, their phone genuinely seems good. But more to your point, concerning watches I remember that for months on his podcast he was dismissive of the then rumored/speculated Apple Watch form factor altogether, he thought that if anything it would be more like a fitness tracker, and obviously once it became reality he unconditionaly praised the watch and now every new year with equal praise he is saying that the new model should have been the first one... Time passing, more than being biased I think his real issue is that he has become incredibly lazy with his work.
  - jgruber 9y ago
    I think I missed the mark in several ways with my review of the original Apple Watch, but I complained strenuously about the fact that the display doesn't always show the time -- something I'm used to because I've worn a traditional watch since I was in middle school. I think I complained about not being able to read the display in sunlight too. The gist of my review -- and I still think this today -- is that Apple Watch is good at doing several new things (notifications and fitness tracking) but isn't as good as a traditional watch at traditional watch things (showing the time and date continuously).
dgreensp 9y ago
Waaaay over the top with glowing, hyperbolic language about how the X truly, truly this time “reinvents” the iPhone in a way unlike any device has ever been reinvented.

dpcx 9y ago

While it does read as a fanboy article, Gruber has criticized Apple at least a few times in the past. Here's one example, in particular. https://daringfireball.net/linked/2016/04/08/snell-3d-touch https://daringfireball.net/linked/2016/04/08/snell-3d-touch

ZeroGravitas 9y ago
When I first read Gruber he spent quite a bit of his time attacking Apple for abandoning lots of the good stuff from OS9 in favor of the promise offered by the (relatively) clean but at-the-time untested underpinnings of OSX.
lern_too_spel 9y ago
Until he says Apple screwed up so bad that he recommends another company's product, he can only be called a shill.
- jgruber 9y ago
  Which products do you think I should recommend a competing product over Apple's? On phones, tablets, and computers, I personally much prefer Apple's OSes, and I usually prefer their hardware as well. But even when I don't prefer Apple's hardware, the OS wins out. I don't recommend Apple's wi-fi base stations: https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1370753 https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1370753
  - lern_too_spel 9y ago
    And why haven't you written anything about which WiFi base station you recommend? Because it isn't an Apple device? Everybody has a WiFi base station, while relatively few people have a smart watch or a programmable TV set top box, so noteworthiness is definitely not the reason. On phones, tablets, and computers; your opinions are laughably one-sided, pooh-poohing all the things that Apple gets wrong, while making up issues with competitor products out of whole cloth. Your writing on Apple's long-delayed deployment of third party multitasking and its eventual copying of Android's Activity model, having worse battery life than the competition this the entire time, was especially cringeworthy.
    - armadsen 9y ago
      He has talked pretty frequently about how he has and likes Eero’s products on his podcast.
      - calibration263 9y ago
        They also happen to be a sponsor of the podcast, so I could understand why he hasn't written a glowing review on DF.
      - lern_too_spel 9y ago
        He likes Eero like the radio DJ likes Comcast and Sleep Train. There is no attempt to justify his recommendation, certainly not the massive effort and contortions he puts into recommending every Apple product. https://daringfireball.net/linked/2016/12/10/eero-wifi-system https://daringfireball.net/linked/2016/12/10/eero-wifi-syste... https://daringfireball.net/feeds/sponsors/2017/12/eero https://daringfireball.net/feeds/sponsors/2017/12/eero
  - Mindwipe 9y ago
    Photos seems like a good example of a product that is in such a mess that you should be discussing what a general user should use instead at this point. You even confess in the recent post about Marzipan about what a debacle drag and drop not working for a year in Photos is. But you've never written a piece about "why is Photos in such a mess"? Because it is. Basics of the platform still don't work, more than a year later (export original files and watch it hang, with no progress indicator! Drag and drop between applications is a joke!). Why not turn some light on that, why not discuss alternatives than general users should be looking at instead?
- charlesgres 9y ago
  The way I read that is that you're a shill as soon as you say something (even slightly) positive about Apple.. I guess for an Android fan it's not a tough call to be cleared of the 'shill' label, because there's plenty of fucking up going on in that world that even the diehard fans have to admit to it.. If only Apple would do us Apple fans the favor of royally fucking up from time to time so that we can stop being accused of being shills.. But alas they never do.. What a pity..

jws 9y ago

Perhaps the best way to extract information from Gruber is to analyze which Apple products he does not write about.

mcphage 9y ago

> This is an incredibly fanboy-y article even by Gruber standards. Agreed... this was the most Gruber-y he's ever Grubered: "Is the higher price of the iPhone X over the iPhones 8 justified? [...] But you also get something you can’t compare in a checkmark comparison — a sort of joie de vivre." > I'm not sure he's physically capable of criticizing Apple, even if he wanted to. That's definitely not true. While he generally likes their products, he's definitely critical of them when he thinks they mess up. If all you read of his are these posts shared on HN, you'll probably only read his glowing reviews. And if you don't like his writing, then sure, there's no point in seeking him out. But don't assume that because you don't read his criticisms, that he doesn't—can't!—write them, because he most assuredly does.

brian-armstrong 9y ago
There was some stretch of time where I'd visit his blog once every week or so and catch up. He has a tendency to take Apple flaws and spin them as good things. Even when he does criticize Apple it's only half heartedly. I'm not sure who wins the spin competition between him and Paul Thurrott
- lern_too_spel 9y ago
  Definitely Gruber. I've seen Thurrot recommend products from more than one company. Gruber, never. If Apple has a product in the space, only the Apple product is worth buying, no matter how objectively bad it is.
  - mcphage 9y ago
    > I've seen Thurrot recommend products from more than one company. Gruber, never. That's also definitely not true. He's been a big supporter of Amazon's Echo line, he's mentioned a number of Android phones he likes—hell, on his front page right now he links glowingly to an article about how much better Google Maps is than Apple Maps.
    - lern_too_spel 9y ago

mikestew 9y ago

My take on Gruber is to not take him seriously. Don't take his recommendations, he'll flip on a dime. For example, when the Pebble was announced he was first in line on the Kickstarter. It shipped, he liked it. As soon as the Apple Watch came out, the Pebble was suddenly a piece of shit. I'm also convinced that he recommends things that he's either never used, or took money to recommend. An outstanding example is a weather app he gushed about that I'm convinced he never used because it was horrible (as in, the forecasts weren't even close), and the visual design was something he'd typically tear into. For me, Gruber is in the "Dvorak/Cringley" bucket: entertaining, sometimes on point, but for $DEITY's sake don't take it for gospel. But despite all that, I read every post.

stcredzero 9y ago
It shipped, he liked it. As soon as the Apple Watch came out, the Pebble was suddenly a piece of shit. Isn't that how it works? My 15" GTX 1070 laptop used to be the bees knees. So amazing and compact for a laptop that could support VR. Now, in comparison to some stunning Max-Q designs, it's now pretty meh.
doe88 9y ago
I don't have anything against him, I think in the iPhone X case he might deservedly be lauding Apple, their phone genuinely seems good. But more to your point, concerning watches I remember that for months on his podcast he was dismissive of the then rumored/speculated Apple Watch form factor altogether, he thought that if anything it would be more like a fitness tracker, and obviously once it became reality he unconditionaly praised the watch and now every new year with equal praise he is saying that the new model should have been the first one... Time passing, more than being biased I think his real issue is that he has become incredibly lazy with his work.
- jgruber 9y ago
  I think I missed the mark in several ways with my review of the original Apple Watch, but I complained strenuously about the fact that the display doesn't always show the time -- something I'm used to because I've worn a traditional watch since I was in middle school. I think I complained about not being able to read the display in sunlight too. The gist of my review -- and I still think this today -- is that Apple Watch is good at doing several new things (notifications and fitness tracking) but isn't as good as a traditional watch at traditional watch things (showing the time and date continuously).

dgreensp 9y ago

Waaaay over the top with glowing, hyperbolic language about how the X truly, truly this time “reinvents” the iPhone in a way unlike any device has ever been reinvented.