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Dynamic scope. Not really very strange but very unusual; not supported by many languages. AFAIK Perl and Lisp(ish) languages are the only ones. For example:

Dynamic scope. Not really very strange but very unusual; not supported by many languages. AFAIK Perl and Lisp(ish) languages are the only ones. For example: sub foo {my $x='fish'; local $y='chips'; &bar;} sub bar {print "\$x is >$x< and \$y is >$y<\n";} This will output $x is >< and $y is >chips< It's quite handy - saves passing around a "context" object, for example. The remarkable thing is how few languages implement some form of it.

btilly 16y ago
Dynamic scope is supported in older Lisps (eLisp is the only widely used variant with it), and a variety of scripting languages including PHP, Perl, TCL and vimsh (that's vim's internal scripting language). It is rarish because it has been recognized as a bad design, but it still turns up because it is easy to implement.
- bretthoerner 16y ago
  > eLisp is the only widely used variant with it I think you mean it's the only widely used variant where it's the default. It's available in CL and Clojure when you want (need?) it.
  - jrockway 16y ago
    And Haskell: import Control.Monad.Reader type Action = ReaderT String IO () foo :: Action foo = do bar local (const "new state") bar bar bar :: Action bar = liftIO . putStrLn =<< ask > runReaderT foo "foo" foo new state foo
  - j_baker 16y ago
    As well as scheme.
- ratsbane 16y ago
  It is often recognized as bad design - though I don't think that's always fair. I thought of this because I was just reading some Java code that passed around a context object with all kinds of random things stuffed into it. It was, in effect, a way of simulating dynamic scope. There's a time and a place for everything. I'm sure dynamic scope can be horribly abused, but it's also nice to have in the toolbox for when you actually need to do what it does.
- xtho 16y ago
  How does tcl, php, and vimscript support dynamic scoping? Examples please. IIRC common lisp supports dynamic scoping too -- it defaults to lexical scoping though.
makmanalp 16y ago
If you ever tried implementing a language, you'll see that dynamic scope is actually much easier. So it's not that language x doesn't implement dynamic scope. It's that language x doesn't actually implement lexical scope so it's left with dynamic scope :)
- aphyr 16y ago
  I'm not sure I understand your sentence (did you mean language x does implement dynamic scope?), but I feel obliged to mention Perl offers lexical scoping as well--within each file and each block.
  - aerique 16y ago
    If you're a lazy language designer dynamic scope sort of emerges from the design proces while one really has to do extra work to support lexical scoping in a language.
  - kragen 16y ago
    Perl 5 has dynamic scoping for backward compatibility with Perl 4, which had only dynamic scoping, and not only that, it botched it so that this code didn't work right: sub greet { local ($who) = @_; print "hello, $who\n"; } $who = "world"; &greet($who); This would print, "hello, " with a newline, due to a design bug called "variable suicide", which has been fixed in newer Perls. Needless to say, this made the extract-subroutine refactoring quite a bit more trouble in Perl 4.
    - avar 16y ago
      It doesn't just have it for backwards compatibility, it's still a very useful feature in some cases: sub foo { local $ENV{HOME} = "/foo/bar"; Code::I::Don't::Own(); } foo(); Having dynamic scope here ensures that the foreign code will use the environment I want without me having to alter it.
    - draegtun 16y ago
      Perl 6 also has dynamic scoping. But I don't think they kept it just for backward compatibility with Perl 4 & 5 :) Here is another example where dynamic scoping can indeed be very useful: sub bar { 'bar' } sub baz { bar() } sub foo { no warnings 'redefine'; local *bar = sub { 'My Bar' }; baz(); } say foo(); # => 'My Bar' say baz(); # => 'bar'

btilly 16y ago

Dynamic scope is supported in older Lisps (eLisp is the only widely used variant with it), and a variety of scripting languages including PHP, Perl, TCL and vimsh (that's vim's internal scripting language). It is rarish because it has been recognized as a bad design, but it still turns up because it is easy to implement.

bretthoerner 16y ago
> eLisp is the only widely used variant with it I think you mean it's the only widely used variant where it's the default. It's available in CL and Clojure when you want (need?) it.
- jrockway 16y ago
  And Haskell: import Control.Monad.Reader type Action = ReaderT String IO () foo :: Action foo = do bar local (const "new state") bar bar bar :: Action bar = liftIO . putStrLn =<< ask > runReaderT foo "foo" foo new state foo
- j_baker 16y ago
  As well as scheme.
ratsbane 16y ago
It is often recognized as bad design - though I don't think that's always fair. I thought of this because I was just reading some Java code that passed around a context object with all kinds of random things stuffed into it. It was, in effect, a way of simulating dynamic scope. There's a time and a place for everything. I'm sure dynamic scope can be horribly abused, but it's also nice to have in the toolbox for when you actually need to do what it does.
xtho 16y ago
How does tcl, php, and vimscript support dynamic scoping? Examples please. IIRC common lisp supports dynamic scoping too -- it defaults to lexical scoping though.

makmanalp 16y ago

If you ever tried implementing a language, you'll see that dynamic scope is actually much easier. So it's not that language x doesn't implement dynamic scope. It's that language x doesn't actually implement lexical scope so it's left with dynamic scope :)

aphyr 16y ago
I'm not sure I understand your sentence (did you mean language x does implement dynamic scope?), but I feel obliged to mention Perl offers lexical scoping as well--within each file and each block.
- aerique 16y ago
  If you're a lazy language designer dynamic scope sort of emerges from the design proces while one really has to do extra work to support lexical scoping in a language.
- kragen 16y ago
  Perl 5 has dynamic scoping for backward compatibility with Perl 4, which had only dynamic scoping, and not only that, it botched it so that this code didn't work right: sub greet { local ($who) = @_; print "hello, $who\n"; } $who = "world"; &greet($who); This would print, "hello, " with a newline, due to a design bug called "variable suicide", which has been fixed in newer Perls. Needless to say, this made the extract-subroutine refactoring quite a bit more trouble in Perl 4.
  - avar 16y ago
    It doesn't just have it for backwards compatibility, it's still a very useful feature in some cases: sub foo { local $ENV{HOME} = "/foo/bar"; Code::I::Don't::Own(); } foo(); Having dynamic scope here ensures that the foreign code will use the environment I want without me having to alter it.
  - draegtun 16y ago
    Perl 6 also has dynamic scoping. But I don't think they kept it just for backward compatibility with Perl 4 & 5 :) Here is another example where dynamic scoping can indeed be very useful: sub bar { 'bar' } sub baz { bar() } sub foo { no warnings 'redefine'; local *bar = sub { 'My Bar' }; baz(); } say foo(); # => 'My Bar' say baz(); # => 'bar'