3 ms·

so when do we expect to see mass browser adoption of this?

kuschku 9y ago
That’s the {amazing|horrifying} nature of this: Web Standards are all descriptive. The standard is only written after the majority of browsers already shipped it, and enough major sites rely on it. (Of course, this means by the point that you actually get to have a discussion about standards, you can’t really change anything more, and all standards committees, from WHATWG to W3C, are just rubberstamping whatever the browser vendors want)
- SimeVidas 9y ago
  This is not correct. Here are some common scenarios: 1. A CSS feature is in most cases specified before any of the browsers implement it. 2. Often, a HTML feature is specified (i.e., added to the HTML Standard) at the time development on it starts in a browser. This is because most browser vendors want to make sure that what they implement is in the spec, and they have people who actively work on the spec for that reason. 3. Nowadays, when a web API is proposed by a browser vendor, they write the proposal down somewhere (usually on GitHub). Sometimes it’s a formal spec, other times it’s just an “explainer.” There are probably plenty of web platform features that only have such an informal specification, but that’s fine for smaller features, I think. In any case, there is always a discussion and some written document. Browsers no longer implement web platform features behind closed doors (although Apple still, in a few cases, starts the discussion a few months before shipping the feature, but that’s more an exception than a rule).
- domenicd 9y ago
  Here is my reply the last time this concern came up: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15927069 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15927069
  - kuschku 9y ago
    I can recommend to read this comment chain as well, IMO it shows the arguments of both sides very well (and avoids us having to re-argue this every time).

That’s the {amazing|horrifying} nature of this: Web Standards are all descriptive. The standard is only written after the majority of browsers already shipped it, and enough major sites rely on it. (Of course, this means by the point that you actually get to have a discussion about standards, you can’t really change anything more, and all standards committees, from WHATWG to W3C, are just rubberstamping whatever the browser vendors want)

SimeVidas 9y ago
This is not correct. Here are some common scenarios: 1. A CSS feature is in most cases specified before any of the browsers implement it. 2. Often, a HTML feature is specified (i.e., added to the HTML Standard) at the time development on it starts in a browser. This is because most browser vendors want to make sure that what they implement is in the spec, and they have people who actively work on the spec for that reason. 3. Nowadays, when a web API is proposed by a browser vendor, they write the proposal down somewhere (usually on GitHub). Sometimes it’s a formal spec, other times it’s just an “explainer.” There are probably plenty of web platform features that only have such an informal specification, but that’s fine for smaller features, I think. In any case, there is always a discussion and some written document. Browsers no longer implement web platform features behind closed doors (although Apple still, in a few cases, starts the discussion a few months before shipping the feature, but that’s more an exception than a rule).
domenicd 9y ago
Here is my reply the last time this concern came up: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15927069 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15927069
- kuschku 9y ago
  I can recommend to read this comment chain as well, IMO it shows the arguments of both sides very well (and avoids us having to re-argue this every time).