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These countries all have at least 10x the population density of the US. I'm not sure about healthcare, but the rest of your list gets cheaper as population dens

These countries all have at least 10x the population density of the US. I'm not sure about healthcare, but the rest of your list gets cheaper as population density increases.

louithethrid 9y ago
Fine, we are talking about the trhee main urban centers of the US here - not the whole country. Now that this strawman is out of the way- are we allowed to continue?
- tatersolid 9y ago
  No. You don’t get to wire up NYC at the expense of all taxpayers.
  - twobyfour 9y ago
    NYC pays far more in both state and federal taxes than it receives in services. NY State pays far more in federal taxes than it receives in services. Rural parts of the US receive far more in services than they pay in taxes. The rest of the country isn't paying for a thing in NYC - it's the other way around. Just leave us more of our own tax money and we could do all sorts of things that aren't currently considered possible.
    - randallsquared 9y ago
      > Just leave us more of our own tax money and we could do all sorts of things that aren't currently considered possible. At (roughly) what number of people does that argument stop working? 5M? 500K? 50K? 5?
      - twobyfour 9y ago
        I'm not clear on what it is you're asking.
- daveFNbuck 9y ago
  I don't think that's a strawman. Roads and internet have to reach everyone in the country, not just major urban areas. The money for these projects comes from people in major urban areas too. You make a good point about policing. Density wouldn't explain why policing in Tokyo is better and cheaper than in New York.
AlexandrB 9y ago
And the US has 10x the population density of Canada. Yet we manage it somehow (except for internet). I love how the US is simultaneously the most powerful economy in the world and completely hapless at putting any of that to use for the good of its citizens.
- emodendroket 9y ago
  To be fair, the vast majority of Canadians live near Canada's southern border.
  - jacob9706 9y ago
    To be fair, it's cold up north...
    - emodendroket 9y ago
      For sure. It's not a mystery why people would rather live in Toronto than Yellowknife. But it does mean that low population density is in some sense mostly on paper.
  - AlexandrB 9y ago
    My main point is not that providing quality public services is easy but that excuses like "we don't have enough population density" are a red herring. The real hurdles are entirely political. Some back of the envelope calculations: Length of US/Canada border: 8,890km [1] Population of Canada: 36,708,083 [2] Assuming ALL of Canada's population lives within 100km of this border a rough estimate of this area might be 889,000km^2 giving a population density of 41 people per square kilometre. This conservative estimate is in the same ballpark as the US population density of 33 people per square kilometre [3] with the caveat that this population is spread across a long, thin 9000 km ribbon increasing the cost of roads and any other infrastructure versus the US's more favourable shape. And let's not forget that Canada's GDP per capita is $46,437 while America's is $57,467 [4]. This is a factor of 1.24 in favour of the United States. Given all this, why is the US incapable of providing the kind of single-payer healthcare that Canada does to its population? [1] https://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-402-x/2012000/chap/geo/geo-eng.htm https://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-402-x/2012000/chap/geo/geo-... [2] http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/famil01-eng.htm http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/f... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population_density https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependen... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)...
emodendroket 9y ago
In the case of healthcare it's because the US is alone in the degree to which its system is privatized.
- vinay427 9y ago
  I agree that this is a major factor for the US, but as a point of clarification, empirically (based on other countries) there seems to be a degree of privatization that increases efficiency.

These countries all have at least 10x the population density of the US. I'm not sure about healthcare, but the rest of your list gets cheaper as population density increases.

louithethrid 9y ago

Fine, we are talking about the trhee main urban centers of the US here - not the whole country. Now that this strawman is out of the way- are we allowed to continue?

tatersolid 9y ago
No. You don’t get to wire up NYC at the expense of all taxpayers.
- twobyfour 9y ago
  NYC pays far more in both state and federal taxes than it receives in services. NY State pays far more in federal taxes than it receives in services. Rural parts of the US receive far more in services than they pay in taxes. The rest of the country isn't paying for a thing in NYC - it's the other way around. Just leave us more of our own tax money and we could do all sorts of things that aren't currently considered possible.
  - randallsquared 9y ago
    > Just leave us more of our own tax money and we could do all sorts of things that aren't currently considered possible. At (roughly) what number of people does that argument stop working? 5M? 500K? 50K? 5?
    - twobyfour 9y ago
      I'm not clear on what it is you're asking.
daveFNbuck 9y ago
I don't think that's a strawman. Roads and internet have to reach everyone in the country, not just major urban areas. The money for these projects comes from people in major urban areas too. You make a good point about policing. Density wouldn't explain why policing in Tokyo is better and cheaper than in New York.

AlexandrB 9y ago

And the US has 10x the population density of Canada. Yet we manage it somehow (except for internet). I love how the US is simultaneously the most powerful economy in the world and completely hapless at putting any of that to use for the good of its citizens.

emodendroket 9y ago
To be fair, the vast majority of Canadians live near Canada's southern border.
- jacob9706 9y ago
  To be fair, it's cold up north...
  - emodendroket 9y ago
    For sure. It's not a mystery why people would rather live in Toronto than Yellowknife. But it does mean that low population density is in some sense mostly on paper.
- AlexandrB 9y ago
  My main point is not that providing quality public services is easy but that excuses like "we don't have enough population density" are a red herring. The real hurdles are entirely political. Some back of the envelope calculations: Length of US/Canada border: 8,890km [1] Population of Canada: 36,708,083 [2] Assuming ALL of Canada's population lives within 100km of this border a rough estimate of this area might be 889,000km^2 giving a population density of 41 people per square kilometre. This conservative estimate is in the same ballpark as the US population density of 33 people per square kilometre [3] with the caveat that this population is spread across a long, thin 9000 km ribbon increasing the cost of roads and any other infrastructure versus the US's more favourable shape. And let's not forget that Canada's GDP per capita is $46,437 while America's is $57,467 [4]. This is a factor of 1.24 in favour of the United States. Given all this, why is the US incapable of providing the kind of single-payer healthcare that Canada does to its population? [1] https://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-402-x/2012000/chap/geo/geo-eng.htm https://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-402-x/2012000/chap/geo/geo-... [2] http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/famil01-eng.htm http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/f... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population_density https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependen... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)...

emodendroket 9y ago

In the case of healthcare it's because the US is alone in the degree to which its system is privatized.

vinay427 9y ago
I agree that this is a major factor for the US, but as a point of clarification, empirically (based on other countries) there seems to be a degree of privatization that increases efficiency.