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"Us tech people" are the ones enabling them to censor though. From the article: "Facebook this year removed 159 accounts at Vietnam’s behest, while YouTube took

"Us tech people" are the ones enabling them to censor though. From the article: "Facebook this year removed 159 accounts at Vietnam’s behest, while YouTube took down 4,500 videos, or 90 percent of what the government requested".

olalonde 9y ago
That's nonsense. Countries are responsible for making up their own laws, not foreign techies.
- geofft 9y ago
  I think it behooves all techies to reread and really think about the Declaration of the Independence of Cyberspace every now and then: https://www.eff.org/cyberspace-independence https://www.eff.org/cyberspace-independence
  - olalonde 9y ago
    I am deeply against censorship, consider myself a libertarian and wouldn't personally work for Facebook. I deeply sympathise with this manifesto. But I'm also a consequentialist and I believe the Vietnamese are overall better served with a censored Facebook/Youtube than no Facebook/Youtube at all. I also don't believe that getting 100% of techies on our side is a realistic strategy.
    - tehlike 9y ago
      It definitely isn't. There's also the "something you build can be used for evil or for good" aspect, too. When I say enable, I am talking about stateless nonprofits creating platforms where people can communicate freely, express themselves freely, and if they need to - organize protests to protect their freedoms. Things like Signal are great steps toward it, but we need more.
- lostlogin 9y ago
  Just following orders huh?
- tehlike 9y ago
  Most of the time, these companies are actually stronger than the government, even if they are not, there are a lot of ways they can choose to resist the orders.
- tehlike 9y ago
  If you are from the US, be aware that even United States spies on its citizens, and recently-activated social media screening is just another step towards it.
  - walshemj 9y ago
    sorry to break it to you some citizens can be traitors relaying on the "I know his people" and he's a good chap belongs to the right club does't work as a vetting procedure as we found in the UK with the cambridge 5 and others
    - tehlike 9y ago
      I agree, but this is a slippery slope, and be mindful that warrantless surveillance is technically illegal (or not, i don't know what patriot act brought these days). It's a slippery slope because there is no end to it. It starts with surveillance - which evades privacy, then comes your freedom of speech, then your freedom to choose.
      - walshemj 9y ago
        Oh I agree on warrantless wire tapping the one of problems with the states is they don't separate the Police role of the FBI from is Security / Contra Espionage.
digitalzombie 9y ago
On that same thread, Cisco built the Chinese Golden Shield which is what now is refer to the great chinese firewall iirc.

olalonde 9y ago

That's nonsense. Countries are responsible for making up their own laws, not foreign techies.

geofft 9y ago
I think it behooves all techies to reread and really think about the Declaration of the Independence of Cyberspace every now and then: https://www.eff.org/cyberspace-independence https://www.eff.org/cyberspace-independence
- olalonde 9y ago
  I am deeply against censorship, consider myself a libertarian and wouldn't personally work for Facebook. I deeply sympathise with this manifesto. But I'm also a consequentialist and I believe the Vietnamese are overall better served with a censored Facebook/Youtube than no Facebook/Youtube at all. I also don't believe that getting 100% of techies on our side is a realistic strategy.
  - tehlike 9y ago
    It definitely isn't. There's also the "something you build can be used for evil or for good" aspect, too. When I say enable, I am talking about stateless nonprofits creating platforms where people can communicate freely, express themselves freely, and if they need to - organize protests to protect their freedoms. Things like Signal are great steps toward it, but we need more.
lostlogin 9y ago
Just following orders huh?
tehlike 9y ago
Most of the time, these companies are actually stronger than the government, even if they are not, there are a lot of ways they can choose to resist the orders.
tehlike 9y ago
If you are from the US, be aware that even United States spies on its citizens, and recently-activated social media screening is just another step towards it.
- walshemj 9y ago
  sorry to break it to you some citizens can be traitors relaying on the "I know his people" and he's a good chap belongs to the right club does't work as a vetting procedure as we found in the UK with the cambridge 5 and others
  - tehlike 9y ago
    I agree, but this is a slippery slope, and be mindful that warrantless surveillance is technically illegal (or not, i don't know what patriot act brought these days). It's a slippery slope because there is no end to it. It starts with surveillance - which evades privacy, then comes your freedom of speech, then your freedom to choose.
    - walshemj 9y ago
      Oh I agree on warrantless wire tapping the one of problems with the states is they don't separate the Police role of the FBI from is Security / Contra Espionage.

digitalzombie 9y ago

On that same thread, Cisco built the Chinese Golden Shield which is what now is refer to the great chinese firewall iirc.