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Ah, one of the remaining only ways "doing the right thing" ever gets done in the States these days. Why can countries like South Korea, Taiwan or Japan provide

Ah, one of the remaining only ways "doing the right thing" ever gets done in the States these days. Why can countries like South Korea, Taiwan or Japan provide public services like roads, internet infrastructure, police and healthcare at an incredibly small fraction of the cost that is lightyeaes ahead in quality and competency (for the 99%)?

TeMPOraL 9y ago
Path dependence? US went a bit too far in the "individual liberty" direction, and it now can't get out of the mess. In principle, things could be fixed, but good luck getting enough lawyer mass on this.
- TheCoelacanth 9y ago
  Surely allowing police to use excessive force to control protestors is the exact opposite of "individual liberty".
- imjustsaying 9y ago
  >individual liberty causes high prices and low quality. this could be fixed with more lawyers please elaborate
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    Free market causes low quality. What I meant in my comment was something else though - that strong individual liberty/independence causes difficulties in coordinating people on large-scale infrastructural projects. I.e. by the time you get through all the lawsuits and payouts, your new rail line takes 10x time to build and costs 20x the money a less liberal country would need to spend.
daveFNbuck 9y ago
These countries all have at least 10x the population density of the US. I'm not sure about healthcare, but the rest of your list gets cheaper as population density increases.
- louithethrid 9y ago
  Fine, we are talking about the trhee main urban centers of the US here - not the whole country. Now that this strawman is out of the way- are we allowed to continue?
  - tatersolid 9y ago
    No. You don’t get to wire up NYC at the expense of all taxpayers.
    - twobyfour 9y ago
      NYC pays far more in both state and federal taxes than it receives in services. NY State pays far more in federal taxes than it receives in services. Rural parts of the US receive far more in services than they pay in taxes. The rest of the country isn't paying for a thing in NYC - it's the other way around. Just leave us more of our own tax money and we could do all sorts of things that aren't currently considered possible.
      - randallsquared 9y ago
        > Just leave us more of our own tax money and we could do all sorts of things that aren't currently considered possible. At (roughly) what number of people does that argument stop working? 5M? 500K? 50K? 5?
        twobyfour 9y ago
        I'm not clear on what it is you're asking.
  - daveFNbuck 9y ago
    I don't think that's a strawman. Roads and internet have to reach everyone in the country, not just major urban areas. The money for these projects comes from people in major urban areas too. You make a good point about policing. Density wouldn't explain why policing in Tokyo is better and cheaper than in New York.
jsz0 9y ago
The US government is like old legacy software. It's not as good as modern software but it's too difficult and expensive to replace.

TeMPOraL 9y ago

Path dependence? US went a bit too far in the "individual liberty" direction, and it now can't get out of the mess. In principle, things could be fixed, but good luck getting enough lawyer mass on this.

TheCoelacanth 9y ago
Surely allowing police to use excessive force to control protestors is the exact opposite of "individual liberty".
imjustsaying 9y ago
>individual liberty causes high prices and low quality. this could be fixed with more lawyers please elaborate
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  Free market causes low quality. What I meant in my comment was something else though - that strong individual liberty/independence causes difficulties in coordinating people on large-scale infrastructural projects. I.e. by the time you get through all the lawsuits and payouts, your new rail line takes 10x time to build and costs 20x the money a less liberal country would need to spend.

daveFNbuck 9y ago

These countries all have at least 10x the population density of the US. I'm not sure about healthcare, but the rest of your list gets cheaper as population density increases.

louithethrid 9y ago
Fine, we are talking about the trhee main urban centers of the US here - not the whole country. Now that this strawman is out of the way- are we allowed to continue?
- tatersolid 9y ago
  No. You don’t get to wire up NYC at the expense of all taxpayers.
  - twobyfour 9y ago
    NYC pays far more in both state and federal taxes than it receives in services. NY State pays far more in federal taxes than it receives in services. Rural parts of the US receive far more in services than they pay in taxes. The rest of the country isn't paying for a thing in NYC - it's the other way around. Just leave us more of our own tax money and we could do all sorts of things that aren't currently considered possible.
    - randallsquared 9y ago
      > Just leave us more of our own tax money and we could do all sorts of things that aren't currently considered possible. At (roughly) what number of people does that argument stop working? 5M? 500K? 50K? 5?
      - twobyfour 9y ago
        I'm not clear on what it is you're asking.
- daveFNbuck 9y ago
  I don't think that's a strawman. Roads and internet have to reach everyone in the country, not just major urban areas. The money for these projects comes from people in major urban areas too. You make a good point about policing. Density wouldn't explain why policing in Tokyo is better and cheaper than in New York.

jsz0 9y ago

The US government is like old legacy software. It's not as good as modern software but it's too difficult and expensive to replace.