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I agree broadly that the Israeli model seems the one to follow. My understanding differs, however, in that it's not strictly profiling in the sense that carries

I agree broadly that the Israeli model seems the one to follow. My understanding differs, however, in that it's not strictly profiling in the sense that carries heavy negative connotations in the US. I haven't traveled to Israel so can't comment, but I understand that in "profiling" the focus is on more objective metrics than an American might think when they hear the word -- e.g., physiological responses (sweating, increased heartrate, nervousness), consistency under questioning, etc. If that's not the case, would you mind providing some details about your own experience, since you mentioned being pulled aside repeatedly?

username223 9y ago
> physiological responses (sweating, increased heartrate, nervousness), consistency under questioning, etc. Is this what Canadian border guards are supposed to be doing? I hate dealing with them, and therefore minimize my border crossings. I just want to pour money into the Canadian economy as a tourist from time to time, and actual Canadian cops (RCMP) are much less aggressive than their US counterparts, but the border crossing is almost always unnecessarily miserable.
stevenjohns 9y ago
None of those are the metrics they use. Despite being an Australian citizen with a very clean record, as well as having a very Western name, I was red flagged before I even arrived because of my country of birth. With El Al, you're interrogated before you board the plane. When you go to check in, there is a "pre check-in" where you show staff your passport and they check your name off against a paper list. That paper list would already indicate whether or not you're going to be interrogated and at what level. My coworker flying with me was also red flagged, and he was explicitly told it was because of my country of birth and that he was flying with me. He had much less of a rough time than me, though, where I was being interrogated over where I got the 100 shekels they found in my wallet (apparently exchanging a nominal amount of Aussie dollars for shekels at Sydney airport "just in case" astounded El Al security, and it was much more likely that there was something much more sinister going on).
- alexeldeib 9y ago
  Thanks for the detail, and for your own experience. The interrogation interests me. It sounds you don't feel it was useful? I had heard about this kind of interrogation over mundane stories, and understood it as a way of "testing" individuals' stories (especially under duress). But that would depend on it being repeated/prodded thoroughly, which it seems isn't the case.
  - azernik 9y ago
    "Repeated/prodded thoroughly" matches all of the descriptions of the long-form interrogations by Israeli airline and airport security. If they got to the 100 shekels in his wallet, then that means they probably asked him about a lot of other things first, and searched his wallet, and probably tried to put together a timeline of exactly when he went where to try to find cracks in the story.
    - stevenjohns 9y ago
      Not really. It was a standard run-of-the-mill search. The shekels are the only thing they were genuinely interested in. They couldn't comprehend why I had gotten it. It was bizarre.
      - azernik 9y ago
        Weeeeeeeeeeeird. But then, I'm Jewish Israeli, so I don't have a lot of first-person experience with the full interrogation experience, just second-hand accounts from both sides of the table.
    - alexeldeib 9y ago
      This is the theory that I'd heard behind the strategy. Having not experienced it myself, I'm curious how it plays out in practice. It seems they have a high true positive rate and low false negative (i.e., properly suspecting people who should be suspected), but perhaps also a somewhat high false positive rate? This still would be favorable in my eyes to the security in America.

username223 9y ago

> physiological responses (sweating, increased heartrate, nervousness), consistency under questioning, etc. Is this what Canadian border guards are supposed to be doing? I hate dealing with them, and therefore minimize my border crossings. I just want to pour money into the Canadian economy as a tourist from time to time, and actual Canadian cops (RCMP) are much less aggressive than their US counterparts, but the border crossing is almost always unnecessarily miserable.

stevenjohns 9y ago

None of those are the metrics they use. Despite being an Australian citizen with a very clean record, as well as having a very Western name, I was red flagged before I even arrived because of my country of birth. With El Al, you're interrogated before you board the plane. When you go to check in, there is a "pre check-in" where you show staff your passport and they check your name off against a paper list. That paper list would already indicate whether or not you're going to be interrogated and at what level. My coworker flying with me was also red flagged, and he was explicitly told it was because of my country of birth and that he was flying with me. He had much less of a rough time than me, though, where I was being interrogated over where I got the 100 shekels they found in my wallet (apparently exchanging a nominal amount of Aussie dollars for shekels at Sydney airport "just in case" astounded El Al security, and it was much more likely that there was something much more sinister going on).

alexeldeib 9y ago
Thanks for the detail, and for your own experience. The interrogation interests me. It sounds you don't feel it was useful? I had heard about this kind of interrogation over mundane stories, and understood it as a way of "testing" individuals' stories (especially under duress). But that would depend on it being repeated/prodded thoroughly, which it seems isn't the case.
- azernik 9y ago
  "Repeated/prodded thoroughly" matches all of the descriptions of the long-form interrogations by Israeli airline and airport security. If they got to the 100 shekels in his wallet, then that means they probably asked him about a lot of other things first, and searched his wallet, and probably tried to put together a timeline of exactly when he went where to try to find cracks in the story.
  - stevenjohns 9y ago
    Not really. It was a standard run-of-the-mill search. The shekels are the only thing they were genuinely interested in. They couldn't comprehend why I had gotten it. It was bizarre.
    - azernik 9y ago
      Weeeeeeeeeeeird. But then, I'm Jewish Israeli, so I don't have a lot of first-person experience with the full interrogation experience, just second-hand accounts from both sides of the table.
  - alexeldeib 9y ago
    This is the theory that I'd heard behind the strategy. Having not experienced it myself, I'm curious how it plays out in practice. It seems they have a high true positive rate and low false negative (i.e., properly suspecting people who should be suspected), but perhaps also a somewhat high false positive rate? This still would be favorable in my eyes to the security in America.