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No, I don't think you're missing something here. The price for electricity is indeed very high in Germany, rising to new heights with the new year, again. The

No, I don't think you're missing something here. The price for electricity is indeed very high in Germany, rising to new heights with the new year, again. The problem is, unsurprisingly, regulation and policy, i.e. the fees you already mentioned, and the subsidies for industrial usage, etc. So, yes, it actually seems that the NYT is misleading here. Let's leave this as an exercise for the reader, to judge if anyone should really be surprised here. I always think of this old "Trust, but verify" quibble, and that it is actually based on an old Russian proverb. The irony.. :)

JanSt 9y ago
> The price for electricity is indeed very high in Germany It's not only very high, but the second highest in the world, and we are about to take over the first spot [1] > The problem is, unsurprisingly, regulation and policy, i.e. the fees you already mentioned, and the subsidies for industrial usage, etc. The problem are the subsidies for all the green energy. It's not only the direct costs but also the costs for grid interventions (turning on/off capacity), paying for renewables even if they are not producing because there is too much energy available, the huge requirements for new energy lanes from north to south, getting rid of nuclear power etc. Subsidies for industrial usage is often quoted as increasing the costs by interested parties, but it's also a direct need of the Energiewende, because the economic damage would be gigantic. Unless you want to get the energy intensive factories out of your country, you have to factor in those costs. > So, yes, it actually seems that the NYT is misleading here. Yes, as does most media - especially in Germany. Those negative prices are no win for any german. Why else is it, that we will soon pay the highest prices for electricity in the world? [1] http://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/energiekosten-in-oecd-laendern-deutsche-zahlen-zweithoechste-strompreise-1.1959449 http://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/energiekosten-in-oecd-...
- westurner 9y ago
  "Several countries in Europe have experienced negative power prices, including Belgium, Britain, France, the Netherlands and Switzerland." > Yes, as does most media - especially in Germany. Those negative prices are no win for any german. Why else is it, that we will soon pay the highest prices for electricity in the world? AFAIU, it's because you're aggressively shaping the energy market in order to reduce health and environmental costs now. The technical issue here is that batteries are not good enough yet; and [hemp] supercapacitors are not yet at the volume needed to lower the costs. So, maintaining a high price for energy keeps the market competitive for renewables which have positive negative externalities.
  - westurner 9y ago
    Can the excess energy on certain days be converted back to money through cryptocurrency mining? (While society decides whether batteries are a crucial energy security investment)
ZeroGravitas 9y ago
The price of electricity is high in Germany for the same reason it's high in California, both states have taken a market based approach and decided to charge people for the resources they use. This has lots of positive market based effects e.g. people can invest in energy efficiency and be rewarded in terms of monetary savings.
- vsl 9y ago
  Err, no, there’s significant interference with the market via green subsidies. Read the comments above yours.

JanSt 9y ago

> The price for electricity is indeed very high in Germany It's not only very high, but the second highest in the world, and we are about to take over the first spot [1] > The problem is, unsurprisingly, regulation and policy, i.e. the fees you already mentioned, and the subsidies for industrial usage, etc. The problem are the subsidies for all the green energy. It's not only the direct costs but also the costs for grid interventions (turning on/off capacity), paying for renewables even if they are not producing because there is too much energy available, the huge requirements for new energy lanes from north to south, getting rid of nuclear power etc. Subsidies for industrial usage is often quoted as increasing the costs by interested parties, but it's also a direct need of the Energiewende, because the economic damage would be gigantic. Unless you want to get the energy intensive factories out of your country, you have to factor in those costs. > So, yes, it actually seems that the NYT is misleading here. Yes, as does most media - especially in Germany. Those negative prices are no win for any german. Why else is it, that we will soon pay the highest prices for electricity in the world? [1] http://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/energiekosten-in-oecd-laendern-deutsche-zahlen-zweithoechste-strompreise-1.1959449 http://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/energiekosten-in-oecd-...

westurner 9y ago
"Several countries in Europe have experienced negative power prices, including Belgium, Britain, France, the Netherlands and Switzerland." > Yes, as does most media - especially in Germany. Those negative prices are no win for any german. Why else is it, that we will soon pay the highest prices for electricity in the world? AFAIU, it's because you're aggressively shaping the energy market in order to reduce health and environmental costs now. The technical issue here is that batteries are not good enough yet; and [hemp] supercapacitors are not yet at the volume needed to lower the costs. So, maintaining a high price for energy keeps the market competitive for renewables which have positive negative externalities.
- westurner 9y ago
  Can the excess energy on certain days be converted back to money through cryptocurrency mining? (While society decides whether batteries are a crucial energy security investment)

ZeroGravitas 9y ago

The price of electricity is high in Germany for the same reason it's high in California, both states have taken a market based approach and decided to charge people for the resources they use. This has lots of positive market based effects e.g. people can invest in energy efficiency and be rewarded in terms of monetary savings.

vsl 9y ago
Err, no, there’s significant interference with the market via green subsidies. Read the comments above yours.