3 ms·

The article also fails to distinguish whether this was the day ahead market or real time market. In various regions in the US prices go negative often. Nothin

The article also fails to distinguish whether this was the day ahead market or real time market. In various regions in the US prices go negative often. Nothin usual. Good time if you have storage. But most of the generation, 89%, is in the day ahead market which rarely goes negative. The article also doesn’t bother to mention that Germany burns more coal than the US as a percentage of fuel mix. Lousy article misinforming it’s readers.

xxgreg 9y ago
Fun fact. The US burns more coal per capita than Germany. Sure theres lots of cheap natgas, but Americans tend to use a lot more electricity. Aircon isn't the difference either, this only makes a small difference.
- shagie 9y ago
  The data at http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Energy/Coal/Consumption-per-capita http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Energy/Coal/C... for 2001 shows the US and Germany neck and neck in the coal per capita with the US slightly more. https://www.statista.com/statistics/604946/per-capita-coal-consumption-in-selected-countries/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/604946/per-capita-coal-c... for 2015 has similar comparisons. The 2015 data shows the US at 1.63 metric tons of coal per person (?!) and Germany at 1.38 metric tons of coal per person. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2017/10/10/why-arent-renewables-decreasing-germanys-carbon-emissions/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2017/10/10/why-arent... goes into the breakdown of German power generation. As noted, its actually going to get worse as Germany gets rid of its nuclear power (currently 13% of load). Overall, for power consumption per capita, yes... Germany uses much less than the US (12,071 kWh for the US, 6,602 kWh for DE). One thing to note in that is the further north and continental you get (colder winters), the more the power consumption goes up. Norway (24k kWh), Canada (14k kWh), Finland (14k kWh), and Sweden (12.8k kWh) all use more power than the US per capita. Likewise, industrialized equatorial countries also use more power per person (probably for cooling?).
  - xxgreg 9y ago
    In 2016 renewables in Germany produced 191TWh, up from 46TWh in 2003. The last reactors will shut down in Dec 2022. Over the next 5 years, renewables will increase more than the remaining 85TWh/yr of Nuclear generation. https://energytransition.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/img3.png https://energytransition.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/img3... https://book.energytransition.org/sites/default/files/GET_en_Germany%20is%20gradually%20shutting%20down%20all%20nuclear%20power%20plants-.png https://book.energytransition.org/sites/default/files/GET_en... In order to reduce emissions new zero carbon electricity generation will need to be continually built. Germany is doing this. Germany gave nuclear a chance, even spent billions on a thorium reactor. They learnt that nuclear is expensive and not compatible with their democracy. The currently running plants were built in 80s and will be shut down after running for decades. Much of the cost, i.e. the waste storage will be socialised. The first long term storage site has already failed. There is no public support for building new reactors, nuclear cannot be part Germany's ongoing decarbonisation.
    - _Tev 9y ago
      > Germany gave nuclear a chance, even spent billions on a thorium reactor. They learnt that nuclear is expensive and not compatible with their democracy. The currently running plants were built in 80s and will be shut down after running for decades. Much of the cost, i.e. the waste storage will be socialised. The first long term storage site has already failed. There is no public support for building new reactors, nuclear cannot be part Germany's ongoing decarbonisation. Yeah, it's totally cool to misinform public, and then claim "public does not support nuclear power" . . . NOT. Current German "decarbonisation" results in more carbon per kWh produced, so job well done I guess. Oh and "nuclear is expensive" - nice, so Germany has cheap energy after turning green? http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Electricity_prices_for_non-household_consumers,_first_half_2017_(EUR_per_kWh).png http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/... http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Electricity_prices_for_household_consumers,_first_half_2017_(EUR_per_kWh).png http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/... NOT
    - anvarich 9y ago
- dennisdamenace 9y ago
  Are you looking at domestic generation or imports too?

xxgreg 9y ago

Fun fact. The US burns more coal per capita than Germany. Sure theres lots of cheap natgas, but Americans tend to use a lot more electricity. Aircon isn't the difference either, this only makes a small difference.

shagie 9y ago
The data at http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Energy/Coal/Consumption-per-capita http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Energy/Coal/C... for 2001 shows the US and Germany neck and neck in the coal per capita with the US slightly more. https://www.statista.com/statistics/604946/per-capita-coal-consumption-in-selected-countries/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/604946/per-capita-coal-c... for 2015 has similar comparisons. The 2015 data shows the US at 1.63 metric tons of coal per person (?!) and Germany at 1.38 metric tons of coal per person. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2017/10/10/why-arent-renewables-decreasing-germanys-carbon-emissions/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2017/10/10/why-arent... goes into the breakdown of German power generation. As noted, its actually going to get worse as Germany gets rid of its nuclear power (currently 13% of load). Overall, for power consumption per capita, yes... Germany uses much less than the US (12,071 kWh for the US, 6,602 kWh for DE). One thing to note in that is the further north and continental you get (colder winters), the more the power consumption goes up. Norway (24k kWh), Canada (14k kWh), Finland (14k kWh), and Sweden (12.8k kWh) all use more power than the US per capita. Likewise, industrialized equatorial countries also use more power per person (probably for cooling?).
- xxgreg 9y ago
  In 2016 renewables in Germany produced 191TWh, up from 46TWh in 2003. The last reactors will shut down in Dec 2022. Over the next 5 years, renewables will increase more than the remaining 85TWh/yr of Nuclear generation. https://energytransition.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/img3.png https://energytransition.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/img3... https://book.energytransition.org/sites/default/files/GET_en_Germany%20is%20gradually%20shutting%20down%20all%20nuclear%20power%20plants-.png https://book.energytransition.org/sites/default/files/GET_en... In order to reduce emissions new zero carbon electricity generation will need to be continually built. Germany is doing this. Germany gave nuclear a chance, even spent billions on a thorium reactor. They learnt that nuclear is expensive and not compatible with their democracy. The currently running plants were built in 80s and will be shut down after running for decades. Much of the cost, i.e. the waste storage will be socialised. The first long term storage site has already failed. There is no public support for building new reactors, nuclear cannot be part Germany's ongoing decarbonisation.
  - _Tev 9y ago
    > Germany gave nuclear a chance, even spent billions on a thorium reactor. They learnt that nuclear is expensive and not compatible with their democracy. The currently running plants were built in 80s and will be shut down after running for decades. Much of the cost, i.e. the waste storage will be socialised. The first long term storage site has already failed. There is no public support for building new reactors, nuclear cannot be part Germany's ongoing decarbonisation. Yeah, it's totally cool to misinform public, and then claim "public does not support nuclear power" . . . NOT. Current German "decarbonisation" results in more carbon per kWh produced, so job well done I guess. Oh and "nuclear is expensive" - nice, so Germany has cheap energy after turning green? http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Electricity_prices_for_non-household_consumers,_first_half_2017_(EUR_per_kWh).png http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/... http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Electricity_prices_for_household_consumers,_first_half_2017_(EUR_per_kWh).png http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/... NOT
  - anvarich 9y ago
dennisdamenace 9y ago
Are you looking at domestic generation or imports too?