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> I liquidated my 401k savings (took all the tax penalties up front), and said "alright, gonna live off of this for as long as I can until I figure something o

> I liquidated my 401k savings (took all the tax penalties up front), and said "alright, gonna live off of this for as long as I can until I figure something out". This is the hard part in all of these stories. Props to him for having the courage (stupidity?). I think this forum is full of people who would not just love to quit their job and work on their own project, but would THRIVE in doing so. The problem is the paycheck. Do I want to risk it all, throw away my savings, all for a chance at success?

cvaidya1986 9y ago
Regret minimization framework. Looking back from your old age would you wish you had done something like this? Can you earn it all back with a good fall back plan on your expertise ?
- rubicon33 9y ago
  > age would you wish you had done something like this? Not if I was 65 and still working, because I liquidated my 401k back when I was 30 and it never panned out. But yea, I would regret being 65 and having never built a business. > Can you earn it all back with a good fall back plan on your expertise? I don't know. Probably, if you were able to dramatically cut costs and go into hyper-saving mode. This can be a challenge later in life though (once kids and a mortgage take hold).
  - cvaidya1986 9y ago
    Why not throw out dirty prototypes of your top ideas every weekend to see if they gain traction?
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  And if you can’t earn it back, are you prepared to work until you die?
  - cvaidya1986 9y ago
    Opportunities are always there for those who keep an open mind and a growth mindset.
    - toomuchtodo 9y ago
      Let’s not derail the thread, but there are lots of people with college educations who can still only get a minimum wage job. Opportunities are not endless, nor always there. It’s entire possible you jump off the corporate ladder and never make it back on, your wages permanently stunted and your career prospects dimmed.
      - cvaidya1986 9y ago
        Ok let me update it. Opportunities are always there for enterprising, confident and contrarian thinkers who will take several chances with low downside and try to create new things rather than compete within existing paradigms. Disclaimer: Not financial advice but personal observations
        toomuchtodo 9y ago
        This discounts the high failure low success rates of entrepreneurship, which is dangerous advice in a country with a broken healthcare system and no social safety net.
        cvaidya1986 9y ago
        Again, it’s not an OR situation. One can try doing side projects while one works full time.
  - CryoLogic 9y ago
    In lots of tech fields the comp packages are so high this shouldn't be an issue. With good financial planning lots of engineers could actually retire in just ~15 years or so of work.
  - 9y ago
- purplethinking 9y ago
  I think more people would regret it if they knew what they were giving up, but most would probably not make that calculation. If he had kept his corporate job and spent the initial $30k a year he could have retired early only 10 years later. Maybe less if he'd be willing to live very frugally. Then he would be free to build as many apps and games as he wanted, giving him many chances at getting a big hit. I'm in this dilemma myself, as I've always wanted to do something more risky, but I don't want to jeapordize my ability to be financially independent at ~40. Being stuck in a potentially crummy corporate job with potentially terrible management and coworkers for another 25 years (not the case now, but things can change quickly) is the regret I want to minimize beforehand.
  - cvaidya1986 9y ago
    Moonlight unless your co owns your IP? Post traction go independent?
    - purplethinking 9y ago
      Seems the only reasonable option to have the cake and eat it too.
  - sumedh 9y ago
    > he could have retired early only 10 years later. That is a flawed argument. 10 years later you might not have the same drive/ambition which you have right now.
    - purplethinking 9y ago
      Maybe, but sounds a bit like future discounting to me. I'm just presenting my dilemma, and I don't think the solution is to be idle for 10 years and then switch to entrepeneurship overnight. More like work a normal job and try to get stuff going on the side, but don't risk your life savings for a lottery ticket.
- wuliwong 9y ago
  Is the question of what I will think of something when I'm old really the best question? I know that this seems natural but I wonder if it is a bad way to make choices. I don't think my enjoyment when old is more valuable than my enjoyment when young.
wuliwong 9y ago
I've been considering this same move a lot recently. I know this is appealing to some people and seems completely insane to others. I believe that I understand my own psychology pretty well. The situation where every productive hour of my life can be devoted to creating my own product and my own business as well as every passing day being a step further towards zeros dollars in the bank is a way to push me into the mode of peak productivity and creativity. This is weighed against the large risk of not creating any positive revenue streams or cash injections from outside investors and spending all my money. :) I do not have a wife or children so the amount of risk is limited only to myself.
- rubicon33 9y ago
  I'm in the same boat as you when it comes to my psychology and ability to get motivated. I am fairly risk averse though, and find myself unwilling to risk my nest egg.
mkagenius 9y ago
> The problem is the paycheck. Do I want to risk it all, throw away my savings, all for a chance at success Reading this, it feels better in India. Here I can work for 2 years in a good company, save enough to quit job and do something of my own for 3 years before needing money. (Lots of other stuffs are shitty in India, but this aspect is good)
- rubicon33 9y ago
  That's awesome. I love hearing about how this scenario is for people in other countries. Here in California, I don't think that's possible. Cost of living is too high to live for 3 years off of 2 years of savings. Maybe if you were very careful with spending and had a good rent situation, you might be able to do it.
  - CryoLogic 9y ago
    If you are single and don't have children you can always leave CA for a few years, cut your expenses in half by living in a low COL area and come back if it doesn't work out.
    - murukesh_s 9y ago
      I was making the same point. Why make money in a high cost area and insist on spending there :-).
    - rubicon33 9y ago
      Yup, that is a good point. I would definitely recommend anyone with the drive and interest in striking out on their own, do so in their early - mid 20's ... Move somewhere really cheap, and make it happen! You won't be able to do that (or it will be very difficult) once you find a partner because their career may be geographically restricted. Even more difficult if you have children.
  - murukesh_s 9y ago
    You are actually luckier. If you live in California, please work there for 1 year, get your ass of that city/country and come live in a country where cost of living is lower :). That is provided you have the stomach for that and if you don't have family/kids. You can easily get Visa to almost any country and perhaps one month of California/SF salary is enough to live one year in a low cost place.
CryoLogic 9y ago
If you are living in a high COL area like Seattle or Bay area consider moving to a low tax state with low COL. Kansas, Montana, Arizona, not places you want to stay forever but you can get a studio apt for $600-$700/mo. Can probably cut your expenses from LA in 1/3 if you are frugal and push your runway out several years until you start making profits.
- hansmalone 9y ago
  Engineer in St. Louis here. I live in a crazy nice walkable area of the city and pay $400/mo splitting a 3 story house with 2 others. There are plenty of very livable cities esp in the midwest perfect for saving/working on passion projects, only off-limit because they aren't seen as tech hubs or considered hip (These are the best guesses I have). Honestly I don't really understand why programmers (or anybody working mainly on a computer) aren't getting work from home and living in cheaper more livable places. Shrugs the lack of demand is sure favoring my lifestyle.
taway20171214 9y ago
> The problem is the paycheck. Do I want to risk it all, throw away my savings, all for a chance at success? here's something nobody seems to mention. most people don't risk everything once, then exit with a set-for-life payday a few short years later. that's the rare minority of entrepreneurs. most are moderately successful for many years on end, and may finally do a $multi-million exit after a decade or more of hard work and risk. after that initial success, you have to risk it all, multiple times, to either keep succeeding, or reach the next level of success. at any point, if you stop risking the status quo you are likely to fail. in other words it's a self-selecting process. if you are having doubts about risking your meager savings which you can likely earn back within a few years of frugal living while working a high paying programming job, there's your answer.
adamnemecek 9y ago
I’ve actually realized that I was thinking about this wrong. If you spend a year doing shit, you will be in a fundamentally different position skill wise. I quit my job over a year ago (I know, long time but my project is pretty ambitious). In that year I acquired way too many skills. Like I feel like a different person. You aren’t betting necessarily on your project but more on yourself.
amirrajan 9y ago
Not courageous. Really stupid.

cvaidya1986 9y ago

Regret minimization framework. Looking back from your old age would you wish you had done something like this? Can you earn it all back with a good fall back plan on your expertise ?

rubicon33 9y ago
> age would you wish you had done something like this? Not if I was 65 and still working, because I liquidated my 401k back when I was 30 and it never panned out. But yea, I would regret being 65 and having never built a business. > Can you earn it all back with a good fall back plan on your expertise? I don't know. Probably, if you were able to dramatically cut costs and go into hyper-saving mode. This can be a challenge later in life though (once kids and a mortgage take hold).
- cvaidya1986 9y ago
  Why not throw out dirty prototypes of your top ideas every weekend to see if they gain traction?
toomuchtodo 9y ago
And if you can’t earn it back, are you prepared to work until you die?
- cvaidya1986 9y ago
  Opportunities are always there for those who keep an open mind and a growth mindset.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    Let’s not derail the thread, but there are lots of people with college educations who can still only get a minimum wage job. Opportunities are not endless, nor always there. It’s entire possible you jump off the corporate ladder and never make it back on, your wages permanently stunted and your career prospects dimmed.
    - cvaidya1986 9y ago
      Ok let me update it. Opportunities are always there for enterprising, confident and contrarian thinkers who will take several chances with low downside and try to create new things rather than compete within existing paradigms. Disclaimer: Not financial advice but personal observations
      - toomuchtodo 9y ago
        This discounts the high failure low success rates of entrepreneurship, which is dangerous advice in a country with a broken healthcare system and no social safety net.
        cvaidya1986 9y ago
        Again, it’s not an OR situation. One can try doing side projects while one works full time.
- CryoLogic 9y ago
  In lots of tech fields the comp packages are so high this shouldn't be an issue. With good financial planning lots of engineers could actually retire in just ~15 years or so of work.
- 9y ago
purplethinking 9y ago
I think more people would regret it if they knew what they were giving up, but most would probably not make that calculation. If he had kept his corporate job and spent the initial $30k a year he could have retired early only 10 years later. Maybe less if he'd be willing to live very frugally. Then he would be free to build as many apps and games as he wanted, giving him many chances at getting a big hit. I'm in this dilemma myself, as I've always wanted to do something more risky, but I don't want to jeapordize my ability to be financially independent at ~40. Being stuck in a potentially crummy corporate job with potentially terrible management and coworkers for another 25 years (not the case now, but things can change quickly) is the regret I want to minimize beforehand.
- cvaidya1986 9y ago
  Moonlight unless your co owns your IP? Post traction go independent?
  - purplethinking 9y ago
    Seems the only reasonable option to have the cake and eat it too.
- sumedh 9y ago
  > he could have retired early only 10 years later. That is a flawed argument. 10 years later you might not have the same drive/ambition which you have right now.
  - purplethinking 9y ago
    Maybe, but sounds a bit like future discounting to me. I'm just presenting my dilemma, and I don't think the solution is to be idle for 10 years and then switch to entrepeneurship overnight. More like work a normal job and try to get stuff going on the side, but don't risk your life savings for a lottery ticket.
wuliwong 9y ago
Is the question of what I will think of something when I'm old really the best question? I know that this seems natural but I wonder if it is a bad way to make choices. I don't think my enjoyment when old is more valuable than my enjoyment when young.

wuliwong 9y ago

I've been considering this same move a lot recently. I know this is appealing to some people and seems completely insane to others. I believe that I understand my own psychology pretty well. The situation where every productive hour of my life can be devoted to creating my own product and my own business as well as every passing day being a step further towards zeros dollars in the bank is a way to push me into the mode of peak productivity and creativity. This is weighed against the large risk of not creating any positive revenue streams or cash injections from outside investors and spending all my money. :) I do not have a wife or children so the amount of risk is limited only to myself.

rubicon33 9y ago
I'm in the same boat as you when it comes to my psychology and ability to get motivated. I am fairly risk averse though, and find myself unwilling to risk my nest egg.

mkagenius 9y ago

> The problem is the paycheck. Do I want to risk it all, throw away my savings, all for a chance at success Reading this, it feels better in India. Here I can work for 2 years in a good company, save enough to quit job and do something of my own for 3 years before needing money. (Lots of other stuffs are shitty in India, but this aspect is good)

rubicon33 9y ago
That's awesome. I love hearing about how this scenario is for people in other countries. Here in California, I don't think that's possible. Cost of living is too high to live for 3 years off of 2 years of savings. Maybe if you were very careful with spending and had a good rent situation, you might be able to do it.
- CryoLogic 9y ago
  If you are single and don't have children you can always leave CA for a few years, cut your expenses in half by living in a low COL area and come back if it doesn't work out.
  - murukesh_s 9y ago
    I was making the same point. Why make money in a high cost area and insist on spending there :-).
  - rubicon33 9y ago
    Yup, that is a good point. I would definitely recommend anyone with the drive and interest in striking out on their own, do so in their early - mid 20's ... Move somewhere really cheap, and make it happen! You won't be able to do that (or it will be very difficult) once you find a partner because their career may be geographically restricted. Even more difficult if you have children.
- murukesh_s 9y ago
  You are actually luckier. If you live in California, please work there for 1 year, get your ass of that city/country and come live in a country where cost of living is lower :). That is provided you have the stomach for that and if you don't have family/kids. You can easily get Visa to almost any country and perhaps one month of California/SF salary is enough to live one year in a low cost place.

CryoLogic 9y ago

If you are living in a high COL area like Seattle or Bay area consider moving to a low tax state with low COL. Kansas, Montana, Arizona, not places you want to stay forever but you can get a studio apt for $600-$700/mo. Can probably cut your expenses from LA in 1/3 if you are frugal and push your runway out several years until you start making profits.

hansmalone 9y ago
Engineer in St. Louis here. I live in a crazy nice walkable area of the city and pay $400/mo splitting a 3 story house with 2 others. There are plenty of very livable cities esp in the midwest perfect for saving/working on passion projects, only off-limit because they aren't seen as tech hubs or considered hip (These are the best guesses I have). Honestly I don't really understand why programmers (or anybody working mainly on a computer) aren't getting work from home and living in cheaper more livable places. Shrugs the lack of demand is sure favoring my lifestyle.

taway20171214 9y ago

> The problem is the paycheck. Do I want to risk it all, throw away my savings, all for a chance at success? here's something nobody seems to mention. most people don't risk everything once, then exit with a set-for-life payday a few short years later. that's the rare minority of entrepreneurs. most are moderately successful for many years on end, and may finally do a $multi-million exit after a decade or more of hard work and risk. after that initial success, you have to risk it all, multiple times, to either keep succeeding, or reach the next level of success. at any point, if you stop risking the status quo you are likely to fail. in other words it's a self-selecting process. if you are having doubts about risking your meager savings which you can likely earn back within a few years of frugal living while working a high paying programming job, there's your answer.

adamnemecek 9y ago

I’ve actually realized that I was thinking about this wrong. If you spend a year doing shit, you will be in a fundamentally different position skill wise. I quit my job over a year ago (I know, long time but my project is pretty ambitious). In that year I acquired way too many skills. Like I feel like a different person. You aren’t betting necessarily on your project but more on yourself.

amirrajan 9y ago

Not courageous. Really stupid.