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I think these are great for people with experience using embedded electronics and comfortabke with soldering and low level programming (I.e probably a significa

I think these are great for people with experience using embedded electronics and comfortabke with soldering and low level programming (I.e probably a significant portion of HN readers). However for those that don't have a background other than simple programming experience, I strongly recommend paying g more for a platform with good infrastructure. For example , I'm really impressed with particle.io. Board costs are <$20 but come with cloud infrastructure and lots of examples and documentation. For those that value time over money I recommend them.

jdietrich 9y ago
There are plenty of good entry-level tools now available for the ESP8266. There's an Arduino bootloader, with full support in the Arduino IDE including TCP/IP and HTTP APIs. You can serve a "hello world" over HTTP in about 20 lines of code. I wouldn't suggest it for someone with zero microcontroller experience, but it's not terribly difficult to make the leap from basic Arduino projects to the ESP8266. https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/esp8266-thing-hookup-guide/installing-the-esp8266-arduino-addon https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/esp8266-thing-hookup-gu...
- stctgion 9y ago
  There's also micropython https://docs.micropython.org/en/latest/esp8266/esp8266/tutorial/intro.html https://docs.micropython.org/en/latest/esp8266/esp8266/tutor...
curioussavage 9y ago
I didn't find it that hard to figure out. You can do pretty much anything you want with lua on the esp boards. Soldering was a little tricky, I also have to do it outside now with my kids. I think the material for beginning electronics online rivals programming tutorials in quality though not quantity.
komali2 9y ago
Electric Imp is another alternative, though I'm biased ;) A bit better at scaling than particle in my opinion, not that that really matters for little diy one off projects though.
stevekemp 9y ago
I'm probably biased because I got started programming with a 48K ZX Spectrum when I was around 12, and low-level stuff followed. But I started getting interested in "hardware" about this time last year. Soldering was a bit fiddly since I'd only rarely done it in the past, but the programming side was pretty simple to handle. I found tutorials which were very beginner, even non-programmer, friendly. Of course it helps that I've programmed in C for 20+ years, and I can still do assembly-stuff if I must, but I don't think it is unreasonable for a complete beginner to do useful/fun things given enough willpower. The only downside for me is ordering kit from AliExpress which takes ~1 month to arrive to me. I'm currently waiting on some E-Paper, which I was recently surprised to discover is very affordable..
- duckwheat 9y ago
  Which e paper did you get? I was planning to order some soon
  - therein 9y ago
    I am interested in hearing about this as well.
  - stevekemp 9y ago
    I went for a Waveshare 400x300 module for approximately €25. The 800x600 module is perhaps the better size, for €46, but this is just for me to experiment with. I have no particular use for the paper, I'm just impressed that it is suddenly "cheap".
- a_c 9y ago
  Can you or someone recommend tutorial programming esp8266 "natively"? Most of the tutorial I cam across uses a mix of arduino IDE, nodemcu or micropython. I want to interact with esp8266 and the on-board mcu directly using C. I feel like these tools abstract away a whole lot of fundamental concepts, rendering most projects out there hobby-ish. But I have limited knowledge on embedded programming. Hope someone can shed some material programming esp8266 from scratch. Thank you!
halbritt 9y ago
Uh... It doesn't get any easier than an ESP8266 and Micropython. https://docs.micropython.org/en/latest/esp8266/esp8266/tutorial/intro.html https://docs.micropython.org/en/latest/esp8266/esp8266/tutor...
pwaai 9y ago
> I think these are great for people with experience using embedded electronics and comfortabke with soldering and low level programming (I.e probably a significant portion of HN readers). Those days are over. The new chips come with a high level language like python, pip. You can program it like you would with a digital ocean box but with a lot more constraints in hardware. I haven't done any soldering but I don't see why that should turn people off. I mean I am worried about the toxic fumes but I'm sure theres way to mitigate that. The whole point of having my own chip and programming it is the experience itself. Particle.io does not make sense to me as it seems to be another commercialization via platforming of this space which might make sense in enterprise but for the hobbyist, I doubt it.
- chrisco255 9y ago
  You solder outside unless you've got a great exhaust fan.
  - therein 9y ago
    And use lead-free solder. Not much to worry about really.
    - pwaai 9y ago
      I've read another comment saying that actually produces more toxic fumes?
      - summm 9y ago
        Lead free solder requires a higher temperature, so ther are more and more toxic fumes from embedded flux and from heated pcb and components.
        pwaai 9y ago
        I see...seems like I'll just get one of these https://www.amazon.ca/Aoyue-Benchtop-Solder-Smoke-Absorber/dp/B001RLZGKK https://www.amazon.ca/Aoyue-Benchtop-Solder-Smoke-Absorber/d... and stick with lead when I get the chance....I'll be sure to do it in well ventilated area.
pjmlp 9y ago
ESP32 is way better than a PCW 1512, with dual core and network capabilities. Any programming language available for MS-DOS back in the PCW 1512 is doable in a ESP32. Programming can be low-level like we used to do in Assembly, or high level Turbo Basic, Turbo Pascal, Modula-2, C, C++ style.
- uncletammy 9y ago
  As of about 3 months ago, software support for the ESP32 was incredibly lacking. Many very important ESP8266 libraries were incompatible with the ESP32. I ended up having to switch chips mid project because I simply didn't have time (or the skills) to write the code for a modern networking stack from scratch. That being said, the ESP32 has incredible hardware.
keldaris 9y ago
Are these particle.io kits completely soldering-free? I've been looking to experiment a bit with some embedded projects purely for fun and I don't mind low level programming at all (if it has a C compiler or at least a decent assembly manual, I'm good), but soldering (presumably, the smell of the flux, but I've never cared to investigate and would rather just avoid it) is a strong migraine trigger for me.
- matt_the_bass 9y ago
  There is a pretty good sized ecosystem from particle and other compatible products that all just plug together like Arduino shields. No soldering needed for those. They also have a Shield-shield which adapts to Arduino Uno shields. One can, of course, build their own boards which requires soldering.
- evan_ 9y ago
  you can just plug it into a breadboard.
- Bertio 9y ago
  I have a few working without soldering; I just stripped wires and threaded them through the contact opening. I intended to solder after I confirmed it was working right but never got around to it. So far I've got an Alexa controlled IR transmitter that controls my TV, an LED board showing the current bitcoin price, the temperature outside and the status of the local highway and I've got some led strips controlled by Alexa. I haven't coded for years and it was a lot of fun.
- fader 9y ago
  There are some other devices out there that are made to allow alligator clips onto leads or to use conductive thread, so no soldering is required. Adafruit makes several great little boards, but if you're getting started I'd recommend the "Circuit Playground" board: https://www.adafruit.com/product/3333 https://www.adafruit.com/product/3333 It has a number of sensors and LEDs built in already as well and supports CircuitPython, Microsoft MakeCode, and the Arduino framework.
icoder 9y ago
I started with Particle because it's so easy to get going, partly due to the OTA firmware loading. If I remember correctly I only needed an app on my phone and the in-browser IDE. No wires, no programming hardware, etc. From there on I transitioned to more DIY things like the ESP over time, buying cheap stuff from AliExpress.

jdietrich 9y ago

There are plenty of good entry-level tools now available for the ESP8266. There's an Arduino bootloader, with full support in the Arduino IDE including TCP/IP and HTTP APIs. You can serve a "hello world" over HTTP in about 20 lines of code. I wouldn't suggest it for someone with zero microcontroller experience, but it's not terribly difficult to make the leap from basic Arduino projects to the ESP8266. https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/esp8266-thing-hookup-guide/installing-the-esp8266-arduino-addon https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/esp8266-thing-hookup-gu...

stctgion 9y ago
There's also micropython https://docs.micropython.org/en/latest/esp8266/esp8266/tutorial/intro.html https://docs.micropython.org/en/latest/esp8266/esp8266/tutor...

curioussavage 9y ago

I didn't find it that hard to figure out. You can do pretty much anything you want with lua on the esp boards. Soldering was a little tricky, I also have to do it outside now with my kids. I think the material for beginning electronics online rivals programming tutorials in quality though not quantity.

komali2 9y ago

Electric Imp is another alternative, though I'm biased ;) A bit better at scaling than particle in my opinion, not that that really matters for little diy one off projects though.

stevekemp 9y ago

I'm probably biased because I got started programming with a 48K ZX Spectrum when I was around 12, and low-level stuff followed. But I started getting interested in "hardware" about this time last year. Soldering was a bit fiddly since I'd only rarely done it in the past, but the programming side was pretty simple to handle. I found tutorials which were very beginner, even non-programmer, friendly. Of course it helps that I've programmed in C for 20+ years, and I can still do assembly-stuff if I must, but I don't think it is unreasonable for a complete beginner to do useful/fun things given enough willpower. The only downside for me is ordering kit from AliExpress which takes ~1 month to arrive to me. I'm currently waiting on some E-Paper, which I was recently surprised to discover is very affordable..

duckwheat 9y ago
Which e paper did you get? I was planning to order some soon
- therein 9y ago
  I am interested in hearing about this as well.
- stevekemp 9y ago
  I went for a Waveshare 400x300 module for approximately €25. The 800x600 module is perhaps the better size, for €46, but this is just for me to experiment with. I have no particular use for the paper, I'm just impressed that it is suddenly "cheap".
a_c 9y ago
Can you or someone recommend tutorial programming esp8266 "natively"? Most of the tutorial I cam across uses a mix of arduino IDE, nodemcu or micropython. I want to interact with esp8266 and the on-board mcu directly using C. I feel like these tools abstract away a whole lot of fundamental concepts, rendering most projects out there hobby-ish. But I have limited knowledge on embedded programming. Hope someone can shed some material programming esp8266 from scratch. Thank you!

halbritt 9y ago

Uh... It doesn't get any easier than an ESP8266 and Micropython. https://docs.micropython.org/en/latest/esp8266/esp8266/tutorial/intro.html https://docs.micropython.org/en/latest/esp8266/esp8266/tutor...

pwaai 9y ago

> I think these are great for people with experience using embedded electronics and comfortabke with soldering and low level programming (I.e probably a significant portion of HN readers). Those days are over. The new chips come with a high level language like python, pip. You can program it like you would with a digital ocean box but with a lot more constraints in hardware. I haven't done any soldering but I don't see why that should turn people off. I mean I am worried about the toxic fumes but I'm sure theres way to mitigate that. The whole point of having my own chip and programming it is the experience itself. Particle.io does not make sense to me as it seems to be another commercialization via platforming of this space which might make sense in enterprise but for the hobbyist, I doubt it.

chrisco255 9y ago
You solder outside unless you've got a great exhaust fan.
- therein 9y ago
  And use lead-free solder. Not much to worry about really.
  - pwaai 9y ago
    I've read another comment saying that actually produces more toxic fumes?
    - summm 9y ago
      Lead free solder requires a higher temperature, so ther are more and more toxic fumes from embedded flux and from heated pcb and components.
      - pwaai 9y ago
        I see...seems like I'll just get one of these https://www.amazon.ca/Aoyue-Benchtop-Solder-Smoke-Absorber/dp/B001RLZGKK https://www.amazon.ca/Aoyue-Benchtop-Solder-Smoke-Absorber/d... and stick with lead when I get the chance....I'll be sure to do it in well ventilated area.

pjmlp 9y ago

ESP32 is way better than a PCW 1512, with dual core and network capabilities. Any programming language available for MS-DOS back in the PCW 1512 is doable in a ESP32. Programming can be low-level like we used to do in Assembly, or high level Turbo Basic, Turbo Pascal, Modula-2, C, C++ style.

uncletammy 9y ago
As of about 3 months ago, software support for the ESP32 was incredibly lacking. Many very important ESP8266 libraries were incompatible with the ESP32. I ended up having to switch chips mid project because I simply didn't have time (or the skills) to write the code for a modern networking stack from scratch. That being said, the ESP32 has incredible hardware.

keldaris 9y ago

Are these particle.io kits completely soldering-free? I've been looking to experiment a bit with some embedded projects purely for fun and I don't mind low level programming at all (if it has a C compiler or at least a decent assembly manual, I'm good), but soldering (presumably, the smell of the flux, but I've never cared to investigate and would rather just avoid it) is a strong migraine trigger for me.

matt_the_bass 9y ago
There is a pretty good sized ecosystem from particle and other compatible products that all just plug together like Arduino shields. No soldering needed for those. They also have a Shield-shield which adapts to Arduino Uno shields. One can, of course, build their own boards which requires soldering.
evan_ 9y ago
you can just plug it into a breadboard.
Bertio 9y ago
I have a few working without soldering; I just stripped wires and threaded them through the contact opening. I intended to solder after I confirmed it was working right but never got around to it. So far I've got an Alexa controlled IR transmitter that controls my TV, an LED board showing the current bitcoin price, the temperature outside and the status of the local highway and I've got some led strips controlled by Alexa. I haven't coded for years and it was a lot of fun.
fader 9y ago
There are some other devices out there that are made to allow alligator clips onto leads or to use conductive thread, so no soldering is required. Adafruit makes several great little boards, but if you're getting started I'd recommend the "Circuit Playground" board: https://www.adafruit.com/product/3333 https://www.adafruit.com/product/3333 It has a number of sensors and LEDs built in already as well and supports CircuitPython, Microsoft MakeCode, and the Arduino framework.

icoder 9y ago

I started with Particle because it's so easy to get going, partly due to the OTA firmware loading. If I remember correctly I only needed an app on my phone and the in-browser IDE. No wires, no programming hardware, etc. From there on I transitioned to more DIY things like the ESP over time, buying cheap stuff from AliExpress.