4 ms·

Two limitations here are worth keeping in mind: - Throughput is not stellar (less than 1 mbit/s in a realistic setup); - This is not a real IEEE 802.11s mesh,

by kees99 9y ago

Two limitations here are worth keeping in mind: - Throughput is not stellar (less than 1 mbit/s in a realistic setup); - This is not a real IEEE 802.11s mesh, but rather some clever mechanism on how a node can select an "uplink".

StavrosK 9y ago
Thanks for pointing that out. I'd also like to point out that the ESP8266 is a $2 stamp-sized MCU, and it's all you need to run this. Here's the smallest breakout for the ESP8266 that I know of, one I made: https://github.com/skorokithakis/tiny-ESP8266-breakout https://github.com/skorokithakis/tiny-ESP8266-breakout You'll need to connect a 2-3 resistors to the ESP to get it to boot, and that breakout makes it easy. Or you can buy a WeMos D1 mini, which has a USB to serial adapter on it as well, and makes things much easier.
- jacquesm 9y ago
  Very neat!
  - StavrosK 9y ago
    Thanks, Jacques! It came in handy, as it's the only one that would fit in my bus stop bus project: https://www.makerfol.io/project/3VanQzA-the-bus-stop-bus/build-log/ https://www.makerfol.io/project/3VanQzA-the-bus-stop-bus/bui... The alternative would be to have all the resistors and capacitors floating in the case, so it's much more tidy. Plus it's very fun to route.
    - jacquesm 9y ago
      I absolutely love your little projects. Especially can't wait until that phone is finally done. Cue the next meeting where - to the sound of loud ringing - you pull an old fashioned phone out of an oversized pocket and start talking :)
      - StavrosK 9y ago
        Thank you! That's been done for years, though :) I've had more than a few stares, and people even came up and asked me if it was actually working. I even made a PCB for it, so it's much easier to convert a rotary phone to a mobile (haven't tested that yet, though). Unfortunately, the ringer was too high-voltage to make work, and the Arduino wouldn't fit inside the phone unless I took out the ringer. Maybe the new PCB will fit, I'll have to try it out. Maybe I'll send you the next prototype unit as a gift, if I ever complete it (or, if you're ever in Greece, drop me a line and we can build it together!).
        jacquesm 9y ago
        Ah, I thought it was still work in progress. > the ringer was too high-voltage to make work But they don't use a lot of current. It's about 90V AC iirc to make it properly ring, and 20 Hz, you could do that with a switched capacitor network or, alternatively, by using a step up transformer (will be a bit heavier). Ugly solution would be to re-wind the coil so it works on a lower voltage and drive it directly.
        StavrosK 9y ago
        Yeah, it's definitely doable on battery, it was just harder than not doing it/out of my league back then. I think I'll actually give it a shot on the next phone, as I think the PCB can easily fit now (it's only 5x5cm, as opposed to an Arduino Uno with shield on the first prototype). I loved your LEGO sorter, by the way, it was very large-scale and a very interesting project, well done. I greatly enjoyed reading the writeup. Do you still use it?
        jacquesm 9y ago
        > Do you still use it? Paid work has been absolutely insane the 2nd half of 2017, we are barely managing to recover before the next all-out job is landed so unfortunately no time to mess around with other stuff. I have a few more fun projects lined up, one of which has to be ready for next summer so I will definitely be making some time for play besides more work. Can't complain though.
mtgx 9y ago
It's a shame the Wi-Fi Alliance is showing no interest in long-range mesh capabilities for its Wi-Fi standards. The mesh-like standards it does have currently are mainly focused on home automation, and they only cared about developing those because Bluetooth was becoming the de-factor standard for IoT, and now 6LoWPAN seems to be taking over. 802.11ax promised 5x the range of 802.11n in theory, but implementers will go up to 2x, at most, likely preferring to focus on increased performance/bandwidth instead. I think it would be really cool if we could have a Wi-Fi standard that would go through buildings over 1 mile even at 1Mbps speeds. And I think we now have the technology and know-how for how to deal with interference from similar Wi-Fi emitters. It would be nice if something like this was made by the Wi-Fi Alliance because then we could all have that capability in our phones within 5 years after release. Think how much that would help in cases of disaster: earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, wars, and so on.
- blueprint 9y ago
  > Think how much that would help in cases of disaster: earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, wars, and so on. Don't forget censorship… :)
- superkuh 9y ago
  That's because long distance at UHF and up requires clear line of sight. And that requires at least one end of your setup being up very high on towers or buildings. Height is the reason the cell phone network works. And height is the reason mesh networks don't. Height costs money.
- ac29 9y ago
  >long-range mesh capabilities for its Wi-Fi standards >go through buildings over 1 mile even at 1Mbps speeds That sounds like a nightmare. WiFi is already nearly unusuable in high density situations. A recent trip to help a friend living in a medium density part of a large city showed ~100 access points, using the lousy WiFi antenna on my smartphone. Even every single 5GHz channel (which really doesnt travel well through objects) was taken, usually twice or more, including all the DFS channels. Mind you, this was inside. I cant begin to imagine how unusable WiFi (and its related unlicenced spectrum) would become if had 5x the range. Even in low-density suburban areas, 2.4GHz is crowded to the point of degraded performance (although 5GHz is pretty clear for now).

by kees99 9y ago

StavrosK 9y ago

Thanks for pointing that out. I'd also like to point out that the ESP8266 is a $2 stamp-sized MCU, and it's all you need to run this. Here's the smallest breakout for the ESP8266 that I know of, one I made: https://github.com/skorokithakis/tiny-ESP8266-breakout https://github.com/skorokithakis/tiny-ESP8266-breakout You'll need to connect a 2-3 resistors to the ESP to get it to boot, and that breakout makes it easy. Or you can buy a WeMos D1 mini, which has a USB to serial adapter on it as well, and makes things much easier.

jacquesm 9y ago
Very neat!
- StavrosK 9y ago
  Thanks, Jacques! It came in handy, as it's the only one that would fit in my bus stop bus project: https://www.makerfol.io/project/3VanQzA-the-bus-stop-bus/build-log/ https://www.makerfol.io/project/3VanQzA-the-bus-stop-bus/bui... The alternative would be to have all the resistors and capacitors floating in the case, so it's much more tidy. Plus it's very fun to route.
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    I absolutely love your little projects. Especially can't wait until that phone is finally done. Cue the next meeting where - to the sound of loud ringing - you pull an old fashioned phone out of an oversized pocket and start talking :)
    - StavrosK 9y ago
      Thank you! That's been done for years, though :) I've had more than a few stares, and people even came up and asked me if it was actually working. I even made a PCB for it, so it's much easier to convert a rotary phone to a mobile (haven't tested that yet, though). Unfortunately, the ringer was too high-voltage to make work, and the Arduino wouldn't fit inside the phone unless I took out the ringer. Maybe the new PCB will fit, I'll have to try it out. Maybe I'll send you the next prototype unit as a gift, if I ever complete it (or, if you're ever in Greece, drop me a line and we can build it together!).
      - jacquesm 9y ago
        Ah, I thought it was still work in progress. > the ringer was too high-voltage to make work But they don't use a lot of current. It's about 90V AC iirc to make it properly ring, and 20 Hz, you could do that with a switched capacitor network or, alternatively, by using a step up transformer (will be a bit heavier). Ugly solution would be to re-wind the coil so it works on a lower voltage and drive it directly.
        StavrosK 9y ago
        Yeah, it's definitely doable on battery, it was just harder than not doing it/out of my league back then. I think I'll actually give it a shot on the next phone, as I think the PCB can easily fit now (it's only 5x5cm, as opposed to an Arduino Uno with shield on the first prototype). I loved your LEGO sorter, by the way, it was very large-scale and a very interesting project, well done. I greatly enjoyed reading the writeup. Do you still use it?
        jacquesm 9y ago
        > Do you still use it? Paid work has been absolutely insane the 2nd half of 2017, we are barely managing to recover before the next all-out job is landed so unfortunately no time to mess around with other stuff. I have a few more fun projects lined up, one of which has to be ready for next summer so I will definitely be making some time for play besides more work. Can't complain though.

mtgx 9y ago

It's a shame the Wi-Fi Alliance is showing no interest in long-range mesh capabilities for its Wi-Fi standards. The mesh-like standards it does have currently are mainly focused on home automation, and they only cared about developing those because Bluetooth was becoming the de-factor standard for IoT, and now 6LoWPAN seems to be taking over. 802.11ax promised 5x the range of 802.11n in theory, but implementers will go up to 2x, at most, likely preferring to focus on increased performance/bandwidth instead. I think it would be really cool if we could have a Wi-Fi standard that would go through buildings over 1 mile even at 1Mbps speeds. And I think we now have the technology and know-how for how to deal with interference from similar Wi-Fi emitters. It would be nice if something like this was made by the Wi-Fi Alliance because then we could all have that capability in our phones within 5 years after release. Think how much that would help in cases of disaster: earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, wars, and so on.

blueprint 9y ago
> Think how much that would help in cases of disaster: earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, wars, and so on. Don't forget censorship… :)
superkuh 9y ago
That's because long distance at UHF and up requires clear line of sight. And that requires at least one end of your setup being up very high on towers or buildings. Height is the reason the cell phone network works. And height is the reason mesh networks don't. Height costs money.
ac29 9y ago
>long-range mesh capabilities for its Wi-Fi standards >go through buildings over 1 mile even at 1Mbps speeds That sounds like a nightmare. WiFi is already nearly unusuable in high density situations. A recent trip to help a friend living in a medium density part of a large city showed ~100 access points, using the lousy WiFi antenna on my smartphone. Even every single 5GHz channel (which really doesnt travel well through objects) was taken, usually twice or more, including all the DFS channels. Mind you, this was inside. I cant begin to imagine how unusable WiFi (and its related unlicenced spectrum) would become if had 5x the range. Even in low-density suburban areas, 2.4GHz is crowded to the point of degraded performance (although 5GHz is pretty clear for now).