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Even if the migrant workers were exploited by local residents and employers, they were still better-off than they could gain in their rural home. I worked in Be

by ttflee 9y ago

Even if the migrant workers were exploited by local residents and employers, they were still better-off than they could gain in their rural home. I worked in Beijing for more than three years without registering any residential permit, renting a shabby apartment, which is built and owned by the locals, in the village to the north of the city area. Such apartments were cheap compared with the roaring rental and estate price, at the cost of insufficient space and fire fighting facilities. All those rental apartment could have been evacuated/demolished by now. Yes, Beijing used to be cruel to migrant workers. Other cities in China used to be cruel, too. Being caught without a permit could lead to detention and forced labour until repatriated in early 2000s. It is not even the fault of the Beijing local residents be to blame for the tragedy today. The cream of economy development was either intentionally or unintentionally hoarded in the metropolises while the second tiers cities never get the chance. People have to migrate and follow the money.

jsjohnst 9y ago
> Even if the migrant workers were exploited by local residents and employers, they were still better-off than they could gain in their rural home. I’m hopeful you didn’t intentionally imply slavery was a good thing, but that’s essentially what you wrote.
- illuminati1911 9y ago
  BS. He didn’t write a word about slavery nor that it would be a good thing. You need to recalibrate your Bernie Sanders radar.
- reallydude 9y ago
  > that’s essentially what you wrote. Nope.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- StevePerkins 9y ago
  Being poor is almost universally a negative experience, and has been for virtually all of human history. Noting the degrees of awfulness between various poverty cases does not endorse of any of them. This attack is lazy thinking in the extreme.
  - jsjohnst 9y ago
    With minimal research on the topic, the labor situation in these cases isn’t far removed from slavery for these workers, specifically outside the US. Especially look into the situation for the migrant construction workers from Pakistan (which I mentioned in another comment) in the UAE as one example. The work conditions can easily get them killed or permanently injured, they sleep in mud floor huts with no running water, and they can be killed if they try to “escape” without much in legal repercussions if at all (and it does happen!). The only thing stopping it from being the historical definition of slavery is that they signed away their rights to be able to send money back to their families. I don’t know about you, but I don’t feel “signing under duress”, especially that kind of duress, is “doing it of your own free will and accord”. If one think that’s “better off” as OP stated, then I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
    - cturner 9y ago
      It is not helpful to scatter snarly phrases like "if you did your research". Also here you have created a straw man argument by introducing ideas that are tenuously resulted and then criticising the parent as though they had taken a position on them. Please engage in the conversation in good faith.
      - jsjohnst 9y ago
        > Please engage in the conversation in good faith. Agree, thus toned down my reply a bit. After comments like “recalibrate your Bernie Sanders radar” (I’m a registered Republican if that matters, but haven’t voted along party lines in years) and being accused of being lazy and attacking someone (which I certainly didn’t), my tone might’ve caught a bit of unintended edge. I do find it interesting that all three comments in reply to me added zero to engaging the conversation, yet you replied to me. I guess I’ll take it as a compliment that you saw merit in what I said if only it had a been a bit less on edge.
baybal2 9y ago
>It is not even the fault of the Beijing local residents be to blame for the tragedy today. The cream of economy development was either intentionally or unintentionally hoarded in the metropolises while the second tiers cities never get the chance. People have to migrate and follow the money. Here is my observation based on my experience as a person who was frequently visiting Shenzhen over the last 10 years. Shenzhen usually deals with "undesirables" much smarter: 1. Moped taxis - Shenzhen was one of first Chinese cities that made taxi - a taxi business. The moment proper taxi rides became available to general population, moped taxis vanished. Although motorcycles are outlawed in Shenzhen, most people running moped taxis were relying on police being reluctant to chase all and every of them. The moment an economic incentive vanished, so they did too. 2. Street food - mostly vanished when the city started to get more zealous on food safety inspections. When citizens were made to understand that a food safety license in a cafe is more than a piece of paper, they began voting with their valets by choosing food safety attested eateries. 3. Garbage scavengers - vanished without a trace once the city kickstarted legal recycling businesses with minimal subsidies. 4. Garage factories - killed by ferric chloride and other chemical detectors in city savage. and the list goes on. Beijing usually goes simply - we don't like you, firing squads will come this afternoon.
- rajacombinator 9y ago
  Have you traveled to other places than Shenzhen? There are large parts of the world where motorcycle taxis and street food are not considered “undesirable” - quite the opposite. It boggles my mind that you could applaud their disappearance...

by ttflee 9y ago

jsjohnst 9y ago

> Even if the migrant workers were exploited by local residents and employers, they were still better-off than they could gain in their rural home. I’m hopeful you didn’t intentionally imply slavery was a good thing, but that’s essentially what you wrote.

illuminati1911 9y ago
BS. He didn’t write a word about slavery nor that it would be a good thing. You need to recalibrate your Bernie Sanders radar.
reallydude 9y ago
> that’s essentially what you wrote. Nope.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
StevePerkins 9y ago
Being poor is almost universally a negative experience, and has been for virtually all of human history. Noting the degrees of awfulness between various poverty cases does not endorse of any of them. This attack is lazy thinking in the extreme.
- jsjohnst 9y ago
  With minimal research on the topic, the labor situation in these cases isn’t far removed from slavery for these workers, specifically outside the US. Especially look into the situation for the migrant construction workers from Pakistan (which I mentioned in another comment) in the UAE as one example. The work conditions can easily get them killed or permanently injured, they sleep in mud floor huts with no running water, and they can be killed if they try to “escape” without much in legal repercussions if at all (and it does happen!). The only thing stopping it from being the historical definition of slavery is that they signed away their rights to be able to send money back to their families. I don’t know about you, but I don’t feel “signing under duress”, especially that kind of duress, is “doing it of your own free will and accord”. If one think that’s “better off” as OP stated, then I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
  - cturner 9y ago
    It is not helpful to scatter snarly phrases like "if you did your research". Also here you have created a straw man argument by introducing ideas that are tenuously resulted and then criticising the parent as though they had taken a position on them. Please engage in the conversation in good faith.
    - jsjohnst 9y ago
      > Please engage in the conversation in good faith. Agree, thus toned down my reply a bit. After comments like “recalibrate your Bernie Sanders radar” (I’m a registered Republican if that matters, but haven’t voted along party lines in years) and being accused of being lazy and attacking someone (which I certainly didn’t), my tone might’ve caught a bit of unintended edge. I do find it interesting that all three comments in reply to me added zero to engaging the conversation, yet you replied to me. I guess I’ll take it as a compliment that you saw merit in what I said if only it had a been a bit less on edge.

baybal2 9y ago

>It is not even the fault of the Beijing local residents be to blame for the tragedy today. The cream of economy development was either intentionally or unintentionally hoarded in the metropolises while the second tiers cities never get the chance. People have to migrate and follow the money. Here is my observation based on my experience as a person who was frequently visiting Shenzhen over the last 10 years. Shenzhen usually deals with "undesirables" much smarter: 1. Moped taxis - Shenzhen was one of first Chinese cities that made taxi - a taxi business. The moment proper taxi rides became available to general population, moped taxis vanished. Although motorcycles are outlawed in Shenzhen, most people running moped taxis were relying on police being reluctant to chase all and every of them. The moment an economic incentive vanished, so they did too. 2. Street food - mostly vanished when the city started to get more zealous on food safety inspections. When citizens were made to understand that a food safety license in a cafe is more than a piece of paper, they began voting with their valets by choosing food safety attested eateries. 3. Garbage scavengers - vanished without a trace once the city kickstarted legal recycling businesses with minimal subsidies. 4. Garage factories - killed by ferric chloride and other chemical detectors in city savage. and the list goes on. Beijing usually goes simply - we don't like you, firing squads will come this afternoon.

rajacombinator 9y ago
Have you traveled to other places than Shenzhen? There are large parts of the world where motorcycle taxis and street food are not considered “undesirable” - quite the opposite. It boggles my mind that you could applaud their disappearance...