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Some areas iPhones excel in: - LTS Updates - HW quality - Relatively consistent UX elements - Foolproof-ish App store - Less features

Some areas iPhones excel in: - LTS Updates - HW quality - Relatively consistent UX elements - Foolproof-ish App store - Less features ie no App drawer, just homescreens - Forefront of security & privacy technology The 5s was released Oct 2013, and still received iOS 11. It was also the first(?) phone with a Secure-Enclave device for fingerprint reading. If iOS doesn't limit your glass-brick usage patterns, it's a very simple OS, with features that were thought about and picked for a reason. Or maybe more importantly, left out for a reason. This of course gets frustrating if you disagree with what Apple's designers have prescribed you. But to a lot of people; Android phones these days feel creepy to be around, with the amount of Google-integration that requires much hoop-jumping and ignoring-of-gentle-pushes, just to get peace of mind over your data not being vacuumed from whatever crevices Google can find. And there are a lot of crevices on your personal smart phone. If you're installing + maintaining LineageOS or something then you can get par with iPhones for the features that a lot of people in the HN crowd might care about, especially if you subsect for DDG-users.

cinquemb 9y ago
>But to a lot of people; Android phones these days feel creepy to be around, with the amount of Google-integration that requires much hoop-jumping and ignoring-of-gentle-pushes, just to get peace of mind over your data not being vacuumed from whatever crevices Google can find. And there are a lot of crevices on your personal smart phone. The way some people use their iPhone (my partner included) and all the (cr)Apps they have and what they do, it may as well be an android phoning home to google… also ignoring when its in airplane mode, telecos routinely connect through to the phone via baseband… Even with all the conveniences, sometimes its just better to leave my phone at home… esp with all the times something is just trying to connect to apples servers.
- yladiz 9y ago
  > The way some people use their iPhone (my partner included) and all the (cr)Apps they have and what they do, it may as well be an android phoning home to google The difference is that with the apps installed on a phone, you can uninstall the app. With Android you can't just "uninstall" the Play Store.
  - Yetanfou 9y ago
    Sure you can. You'll need to uninstall Google Play Services as well but it is definitely possible to run Android without the Google-specific bits. It's is the first thing I do when setting up a new Android-device.
    - yladiz 9y ago
      Out of curiosity, how difficult is this to do? Would the average user be able to do this easily?
      - Simaramis 9y ago
        It is distinctly non-trivial. Likely part of the reason why it remains possible. Chasing down bugs is the unavoidable result, but to a geek it's manageable. MicroG works very well once sorted. It is however astonishing how much processing power Play Services gobbles up. A de-googlefied phone lasts 30-40% longer on a charge. Once done, it works like a breeze. 3-4 year old flagships Androids are titans when de-googled and with custom roms.
      - chewz 9y ago
        This looks promosing - "New company called eelo will give you de-Google-ized Android so that you can keep your privacy" https://www.phonearena.com/news/New-company-called-eelo-will-give-you-de-Google-ized-Android-so-that-you-can-keep-your-privacy_id101011 https://www.phonearena.com/news/New-company-called-eelo-will...
      - abawany 9y ago
        If the phone can get LineageOS, then it is fairly easy - just don't install GApps when flashing LineageOS to the phone. Alas, phones that are thus open are getting rarer and rarer :( .
    - vageli 9y ago
      This is not trivial and is not akin to simply uninstalling an app (coming from a google-free Android user on a pixel).
chewz 9y ago
I agree on hardware quality. Security to me seems like a sales pitch - Apple is just as sensitive information greedy as Google. And I deal in this area with Google as well as I do with Apple. But the inferior software quality is terrible drag for Apple. Photos - their syncing with iCloud is out of control. There are bugs that haven’t been eliminated for years. I gave up when after deleting 50 GB of RAW photos Apple re-created then and synced back to mu Mac. Google Photos is not only more open but also smarter and better at improving picture quality. Apple Music - I gave up after a month of getting recommended Heavy Metal albums and playlusts everyday. Nothing in my Library, listening and followed artist suggested that I might like Metal. What kind of company can’t write simple recommender? iCloud - Google Drive is just superior, more open, integrates and exchanges files with almost everything, Google Backup just works. iCloud backup is really inferior and again out of control for user. Apple Mail stoped beeing developed and there are well documented frustrating bugs and quirks if you use IMAP accounts. Maps - despite Tim Cook’s promise to users it never got on par with Google Maps. The quality difers wildly from country to country but recently I have re-installed Maps, used them for a week in my hometown and got so frustrated that I have deleted Maps and went back to using Google Maps. Oh should I mention that touch interface is full of bugs. Try selecting a piece of text in iOS...
- yladiz 9y ago
  > Apple is just as sensitive information greedy as Google As in Apple stores the information on their servers, forever? A lot of the sensitive information like a fingerprint or face scan is saved solely on the phone, as is a lot of the ML based features like content detection within a photo. Apple doesn't use a server farm to tell you there's a dog in your photo, it uses your phone. There aren't good excuses for some of the bugs on iOS (the most recent iOS has been out for months and they still can't fix the emoji keyboard size issue, when this issue didn't exist in previous iOS versions?) but I trust Apple significantly more than Google with my data, in part because I know Apple's money isn't from my data, it's from the sale of their phone. This isn't true for Google and it will likely always be true that Google makes its money from advertising and user data. I also trust Apple to actually do some semblance of due diligence and make sure their app store isn't full of malware, something Google seems unable to do reliably.

cinquemb 9y ago

>But to a lot of people; Android phones these days feel creepy to be around, with the amount of Google-integration that requires much hoop-jumping and ignoring-of-gentle-pushes, just to get peace of mind over your data not being vacuumed from whatever crevices Google can find. And there are a lot of crevices on your personal smart phone. The way some people use their iPhone (my partner included) and all the (cr)Apps they have and what they do, it may as well be an android phoning home to google… also ignoring when its in airplane mode, telecos routinely connect through to the phone via baseband… Even with all the conveniences, sometimes its just better to leave my phone at home… esp with all the times something is just trying to connect to apples servers.

yladiz 9y ago
> The way some people use their iPhone (my partner included) and all the (cr)Apps they have and what they do, it may as well be an android phoning home to google The difference is that with the apps installed on a phone, you can uninstall the app. With Android you can't just "uninstall" the Play Store.
- Yetanfou 9y ago
  Sure you can. You'll need to uninstall Google Play Services as well but it is definitely possible to run Android without the Google-specific bits. It's is the first thing I do when setting up a new Android-device.
  - yladiz 9y ago
    Out of curiosity, how difficult is this to do? Would the average user be able to do this easily?
    - Simaramis 9y ago
      It is distinctly non-trivial. Likely part of the reason why it remains possible. Chasing down bugs is the unavoidable result, but to a geek it's manageable. MicroG works very well once sorted. It is however astonishing how much processing power Play Services gobbles up. A de-googlefied phone lasts 30-40% longer on a charge. Once done, it works like a breeze. 3-4 year old flagships Androids are titans when de-googled and with custom roms.
    - chewz 9y ago
      This looks promosing - "New company called eelo will give you de-Google-ized Android so that you can keep your privacy" https://www.phonearena.com/news/New-company-called-eelo-will-give-you-de-Google-ized-Android-so-that-you-can-keep-your-privacy_id101011 https://www.phonearena.com/news/New-company-called-eelo-will...
    - abawany 9y ago
      If the phone can get LineageOS, then it is fairly easy - just don't install GApps when flashing LineageOS to the phone. Alas, phones that are thus open are getting rarer and rarer :( .
  - vageli 9y ago
    This is not trivial and is not akin to simply uninstalling an app (coming from a google-free Android user on a pixel).

chewz 9y ago

I agree on hardware quality. Security to me seems like a sales pitch - Apple is just as sensitive information greedy as Google. And I deal in this area with Google as well as I do with Apple. But the inferior software quality is terrible drag for Apple. Photos - their syncing with iCloud is out of control. There are bugs that haven’t been eliminated for years. I gave up when after deleting 50 GB of RAW photos Apple re-created then and synced back to mu Mac. Google Photos is not only more open but also smarter and better at improving picture quality. Apple Music - I gave up after a month of getting recommended Heavy Metal albums and playlusts everyday. Nothing in my Library, listening and followed artist suggested that I might like Metal. What kind of company can’t write simple recommender? iCloud - Google Drive is just superior, more open, integrates and exchanges files with almost everything, Google Backup just works. iCloud backup is really inferior and again out of control for user. Apple Mail stoped beeing developed and there are well documented frustrating bugs and quirks if you use IMAP accounts. Maps - despite Tim Cook’s promise to users it never got on par with Google Maps. The quality difers wildly from country to country but recently I have re-installed Maps, used them for a week in my hometown and got so frustrated that I have deleted Maps and went back to using Google Maps. Oh should I mention that touch interface is full of bugs. Try selecting a piece of text in iOS...

yladiz 9y ago
> Apple is just as sensitive information greedy as Google As in Apple stores the information on their servers, forever? A lot of the sensitive information like a fingerprint or face scan is saved solely on the phone, as is a lot of the ML based features like content detection within a photo. Apple doesn't use a server farm to tell you there's a dog in your photo, it uses your phone. There aren't good excuses for some of the bugs on iOS (the most recent iOS has been out for months and they still can't fix the emoji keyboard size issue, when this issue didn't exist in previous iOS versions?) but I trust Apple significantly more than Google with my data, in part because I know Apple's money isn't from my data, it's from the sale of their phone. This isn't true for Google and it will likely always be true that Google makes its money from advertising and user data. I also trust Apple to actually do some semblance of due diligence and make sure their app store isn't full of malware, something Google seems unable to do reliably.