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well a capitalist society is also a society bombarded by marketing experts who are in every part of a person's daily life working to convince them to spend more

well a capitalist society is also a society bombarded by marketing experts who are in every part of a person's daily life working to convince them to spend more which in turn drives them to work more or go into debt pushing retirement further off. consumption is high because marketing is that good. go read any of the popular brand subs on reddit and you will see people making stupid purchasing decisions daily and many seek justification. Its really scary when people are trying to save fifty or less on a one to two thousand dollar purchase because it then costs too much; the clue that indicates the purchase at the lower amount is too much escapes them

closeparen 9y ago
Consumer goods are practically free next to housing. I don’t buy this argument at all. I could completely slash or double marketing-driven spending tomorrow and be in substantially the same financial position. Maybe that’s just a Bay Area distortion. Consider also that a large portion of consumer goods spending is on cars, which are basically just a substitute for living on more central/expensive land. In the end it all comes down to real estate.
- jernfrost 9y ago
  The real cost of housing is distorted though when house prices keep going up. In many cases, if you take into account the value increase of housing, it is actually opposite of what you claim. People don't spend anything on housing, because they get back whatever they put pay for the house in terms of value increase of the property. I think it would be more fair to look at, how much does it cost to build a house, and divide that cost on the time it may be used. We should not really add the price of property to the equation. If one does this I will bet that consumer goods make up a much bigger part of the economy than you think.
  - closeparen 9y ago
    You pay the value of your house several times over in interest, and even ignoring that, the value locked up in a primary residence isn’t good for much except moving it to a different primary residence (or leaving to your heirs when you die).
jernfrost 9y ago
Agree there is this illusion that the market is there to figure out what you want and deliver your needs efficiently at a low price and high quality. Instead it is more like the producers create their own demand by emotional manipulation of the consumers.

closeparen 9y ago

Consumer goods are practically free next to housing. I don’t buy this argument at all. I could completely slash or double marketing-driven spending tomorrow and be in substantially the same financial position. Maybe that’s just a Bay Area distortion. Consider also that a large portion of consumer goods spending is on cars, which are basically just a substitute for living on more central/expensive land. In the end it all comes down to real estate.

jernfrost 9y ago
The real cost of housing is distorted though when house prices keep going up. In many cases, if you take into account the value increase of housing, it is actually opposite of what you claim. People don't spend anything on housing, because they get back whatever they put pay for the house in terms of value increase of the property. I think it would be more fair to look at, how much does it cost to build a house, and divide that cost on the time it may be used. We should not really add the price of property to the equation. If one does this I will bet that consumer goods make up a much bigger part of the economy than you think.
- closeparen 9y ago
  You pay the value of your house several times over in interest, and even ignoring that, the value locked up in a primary residence isn’t good for much except moving it to a different primary residence (or leaving to your heirs when you die).

jernfrost 9y ago

Agree there is this illusion that the market is there to figure out what you want and deliver your needs efficiently at a low price and high quality. Instead it is more like the producers create their own demand by emotional manipulation of the consumers.