6 ms·

I like your optimism. Personally, having sat on 'watson for healthcare' presentations by top architects, and having had conversations with them, I'm far less o

I like your optimism. Personally, having sat on 'watson for healthcare' presentations by top architects, and having had conversations with them, I'm far less optimistic about the whole AI in healthcare approach.

killjoywashere 9y ago
As someone working in this space, there is a massive disconnect between the engineers and the medical providers. One has never been in clinic. The other never took linear algebra. To stand with a foot in both worlds is utterly fascinating.
- quickben 9y ago
  Yeah. It's still an interesting project, I just don't think there will be a product anytime soon.
- ghufran_syed 9y ago
  Funny you say that, I just started studying for an MS in math and stats, while working as an ER doc :) Thonking about maybe going on to do a PhD - I was interested in learning how machine learning might safely improve medical care, and began to suspect that to do so without understanding the math would be like diagnosing disease without knowing anatomy, phyiology, biochemistry, pathology, pharmacology,... It turns out that math is at least as fun as emergency medicine.. :)
  - killjoywashere 9y ago
    We are small minority. I want to get the AAMC to add stronger math requirements to the medical school pre-reqs.
b4lancesh33t 9y ago
Isn't Watson known to be somewhat snake-oily? I don't think it's reasonable to transfer assessments based on Watson to Deepmind or any other organization.
- quickben 9y ago
  Assuming Watson is "snake-oily" (Chess and TV demos aside), I don't see anybody else on the planet, let alone that startup Google bought, solving this one without people dying from misdiagnosis. I'll write two things here, and let you derive further your own conclusions: 1. From the DeepMind's top people, in 2013: https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-3-319-09165-5_4 https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-3-319-09165-... "Investigating the Limits of Monte-Carlo Tree Search Methods in Computer Go". 2. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jul/03/google-deepmind-16m-patient-royal-free-deal-data-protection-act https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jul/03/google-de...
  - visarga 9y ago
    > solving this one without people dying from misdiagnosis Why would that be the best metric. I'd prefer "overall minimization of death and sickness", not the "no mistakes allowed for DeepMind" as if doctors don't make lots of mistakes that cost human life.
    - killjoywashere 9y ago
      Death is a thing that happens in hospitals. Anything that leads to less deaths is better.
  - b4lancesh33t 9y ago
    "no adverse effects at all" is not a standard most experimental protocols are held to.

killjoywashere 9y ago

As someone working in this space, there is a massive disconnect between the engineers and the medical providers. One has never been in clinic. The other never took linear algebra. To stand with a foot in both worlds is utterly fascinating.

quickben 9y ago
Yeah. It's still an interesting project, I just don't think there will be a product anytime soon.
ghufran_syed 9y ago
Funny you say that, I just started studying for an MS in math and stats, while working as an ER doc :) Thonking about maybe going on to do a PhD - I was interested in learning how machine learning might safely improve medical care, and began to suspect that to do so without understanding the math would be like diagnosing disease without knowing anatomy, phyiology, biochemistry, pathology, pharmacology,... It turns out that math is at least as fun as emergency medicine.. :)
- killjoywashere 9y ago
  We are small minority. I want to get the AAMC to add stronger math requirements to the medical school pre-reqs.

b4lancesh33t 9y ago

Isn't Watson known to be somewhat snake-oily? I don't think it's reasonable to transfer assessments based on Watson to Deepmind or any other organization.

quickben 9y ago
Assuming Watson is "snake-oily" (Chess and TV demos aside), I don't see anybody else on the planet, let alone that startup Google bought, solving this one without people dying from misdiagnosis. I'll write two things here, and let you derive further your own conclusions: 1. From the DeepMind's top people, in 2013: https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-3-319-09165-5_4 https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-3-319-09165-... "Investigating the Limits of Monte-Carlo Tree Search Methods in Computer Go". 2. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jul/03/google-deepmind-16m-patient-royal-free-deal-data-protection-act https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jul/03/google-de...
- visarga 9y ago
  > solving this one without people dying from misdiagnosis Why would that be the best metric. I'd prefer "overall minimization of death and sickness", not the "no mistakes allowed for DeepMind" as if doctors don't make lots of mistakes that cost human life.
  - killjoywashere 9y ago
    Death is a thing that happens in hospitals. Anything that leads to less deaths is better.
- b4lancesh33t 9y ago
  "no adverse effects at all" is not a standard most experimental protocols are held to.