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I suspect if you think that U.S. is too bureaucratic or unfair, you have never been to other countries, really. There is only a handful of countries that can be

by js8 9y ago

I suspect if you think that U.S. is too bureaucratic or unfair, you have never been to other countries, really. There is only a handful of countries that can be said to do better in one of those respects. It seems to me that you claim that there is a trade-off between bureaucracy and corruption. I disagree, to me it seems (although I cannot readily prove it) that these are more often correlated than not.

icegreentea2 9y ago
I think his point that you don't actually get fairness in practice answers to your point about the trade-off between efficiency and corruption. I think the point was that adding rules and diffusing responsibility appear to be a way to reduce corruption and making things fair for everyone, but that in practice that relationship may not be so simple.
smallnamespace 9y ago
> U.S. is too bureaucratic or unfair Not so much at the local level where a citizen deals with the bureaucracy, but certainly at the level where lots of money gets allocated and spent, such as military procurement. Just look at what SpaceX has managed to achieve largely outside the world of government cost-plus contracting at a small fraction of the budget of its competitors. Large parts of the military-industrial complex are jobs programs for underserved portions of the country disguised as 'defense'. The inefficiency is purposeful. It keeps mounds of people employed in states where there otherwise wouldn't be much investment. It requires an army of federal bureaucrats who spend years writing detailed waterfall-style calls for bids, then an army of engineers at the large firms that craft bids that are happen to be perfectly suited to the government's needs. A clique of politicians from those states that will provide unwavering support to make sure the jobs remain in their states A small town worth of lawyers, accountants, inspectors, to make sure that the entire process is 'fair' and 'transparent', and to produce thousands of pages of documentation to a public that will never read (but is always available to defend against charges of corruption). This is still 'corruption', but legally, done at a massive, industrial scale and with more steps. But note that much of this is simply make-work, the equivalent of digging holes and filling them again. The country would probably be safer and have a better military if we were just honest with ourselves, made those industries efficient, and then pay off the existing beneficiaries with direct transfers and massive investments in health care and education.
TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
This website[1] claims there are fourteen countries less corrupt than the USA, and fifteen countries that are more democratic.[2] 1. http://www.worldaudit.org/corruption.htm http://www.worldaudit.org/corruption.htm 2. http://www.worldaudit.org/democracy.htm http://www.worldaudit.org/democracy.htm

by js8 9y ago

icegreentea2 9y ago

I think his point that you don't actually get fairness in practice answers to your point about the trade-off between efficiency and corruption. I think the point was that adding rules and diffusing responsibility appear to be a way to reduce corruption and making things fair for everyone, but that in practice that relationship may not be so simple.

smallnamespace 9y ago

> U.S. is too bureaucratic or unfair Not so much at the local level where a citizen deals with the bureaucracy, but certainly at the level where lots of money gets allocated and spent, such as military procurement. Just look at what SpaceX has managed to achieve largely outside the world of government cost-plus contracting at a small fraction of the budget of its competitors. Large parts of the military-industrial complex are jobs programs for underserved portions of the country disguised as 'defense'. The inefficiency is purposeful. It keeps mounds of people employed in states where there otherwise wouldn't be much investment. It requires an army of federal bureaucrats who spend years writing detailed waterfall-style calls for bids, then an army of engineers at the large firms that craft bids that are happen to be perfectly suited to the government's needs. A clique of politicians from those states that will provide unwavering support to make sure the jobs remain in their states A small town worth of lawyers, accountants, inspectors, to make sure that the entire process is 'fair' and 'transparent', and to produce thousands of pages of documentation to a public that will never read (but is always available to defend against charges of corruption). This is still 'corruption', but legally, done at a massive, industrial scale and with more steps. But note that much of this is simply make-work, the equivalent of digging holes and filling them again. The country would probably be safer and have a better military if we were just honest with ourselves, made those industries efficient, and then pay off the existing beneficiaries with direct transfers and massive investments in health care and education.

TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago

This website[1] claims there are fourteen countries less corrupt than the USA, and fifteen countries that are more democratic.[2] 1. http://www.worldaudit.org/corruption.htm http://www.worldaudit.org/corruption.htm 2. http://www.worldaudit.org/democracy.htm http://www.worldaudit.org/democracy.htm