5 ms·

They're good, but the transcripts really demonstrate just how hopelessly naive RW is. She printed classified docs on her work printer, emailed them from her wor

They're good, but the transcripts really demonstrate just how hopelessly naive RW is. She printed classified docs on her work printer, emailed them from her work email and then confessed to FBI agents without consulting a lawyer. It doesn't excuse what she did, of course, but it's clear she didn't grasp the gravity of her actions.

heartbreak 9y ago
Maybe it’s because I’ve never been in that position, but I simply do not understand why you wouldn’t ask to have an attorney present for the questioning.
- nkozyra 9y ago
  Those doing the questioning try hard to blend the line between "we're just talking" and you needing a lawyer. The truth is, you need a lawyer precisely because you're "just talking." We've also been conditioned to believe that retaining and using a lawyer should be conflated with guilt.
- schoen 9y ago
  I feel like this is something people have to consciously practice and remind themselves of. I work for a civil liberties organization. Yet a few years ago two patrol officers in a train station in New York managed to interrogate me using a classic "good cop, bad cop" method -- about photographs that I was taking. I felt especially weird about this afterward because I had been reading news articles about people's legal right to take photographs in public places. Apparently, my theoretical desire to assert my rights in an interaction with law enforcement somehow wasn't borne out in practice, and their interrogation methods are incredibly effective. One thing I found striking when looking briefly at the linked transcript of the interview with Reality Winner is her concern for her pets. Making sure that her pets are properly taken care of is something that she needs from the agents and that's outside of her control in this situation. They don't explicitly bargain about this, but it seems like it's one big reason that she wants them to see her as cooperative.
  - jnbiche 9y ago
    > Making sure that her pets are properly taken care of is something that she needs from the agents and that's outside of her control in this situation. Exactly, and she knows that pets frequently get shot in situations like the one she was in (although to be fair, that's usually with city and state police depts, not the FBI).
  - rdtsc 9y ago
    Yeah I noticed the pets too, no doubt the FBI agents picked up her concern for it and used the situation to their advantage. Imagine if it was kids, friends or relatives. "Sure don't have to talk to us, but keep in mind we can arrest you, and we don't want to do it, who knows what weirdos your kids might end up with..." "-Yeah sure let's talk..."
- wallace_f 9y ago
  What she leaked didn't hurt the deep state or the plutocracy, nor did it help the people. She is either hopelessly naive in all of her actions, or controlled. Probably the former.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- andy_ppp 9y ago
  When you are in this situation fine, sat at your desk, relaxed. If I pretend to be your friend make you feel amazing then crank up the pressure before you realise what’s going on you’re being quizzed at a pace by someone who doesn’t even give you time to breath and starts making threats about your future well-being. Sure, you might forget the lawyer the first time this happens.
- sliverstorm 9y ago
  I don't exactly have an attorney on retainer or a generous "legal expenses" cost center.
  - candiodari 9y ago
    You don't need one on retainer. When they say one will be assigned, they're not kidding. They will get you one.
    - AlexCoventry 9y ago
      Isn't that means-tested?
      - IncRnd 9y ago
        It is Miranda-tested in the US.
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
        AlexCoventry 9y ago
        This article asserts that means testing is applied in at least some circumstances. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/12/you-have-the-right-to-counsel-or-do-you/1983199/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/12/you-ha...
  - heartbreak 9y ago
    You'll get a public defender.
    - sliverstorm 9y ago
      Sorry, I don't closely follow this whole "don't talk to the police ever" thing- is this the case even when you're just refusing to talk to the police on the street without an attorney? Was always under the impression the right to publicly provided legal counsel mostly centered on an actual trial.
- tgarma1234 9y ago
  Because you will be afraid that if you don't comply they will treat you badly and maybe even take you to jail. You can see in the interview of RW that the FBI agents make it seem like they are just there to find out what happened and they say several times that they think she just made a mistake. They are doing that in order to get her to see them as allies in the search for the truth and to minimize the gravity of the situation. So, in a case like this she would probably be sitting there thinking "yeah it was a mistake I didn't want to do that at all I can't believe I made a mistake like that" which makes it all but impossible for her to halt the interview and request an attorney. In order to have asked for legal representation she would have had to see the gravity of the situation, which the FBI agents downplayed over and over as a trick.
AlexCoventry 9y ago
I think it's worth considering that her work environment may have conditioned her to compliance with authority.

heartbreak 9y ago

Maybe it’s because I’ve never been in that position, but I simply do not understand why you wouldn’t ask to have an attorney present for the questioning.

nkozyra 9y ago
Those doing the questioning try hard to blend the line between "we're just talking" and you needing a lawyer. The truth is, you need a lawyer precisely because you're "just talking." We've also been conditioned to believe that retaining and using a lawyer should be conflated with guilt.
schoen 9y ago
I feel like this is something people have to consciously practice and remind themselves of. I work for a civil liberties organization. Yet a few years ago two patrol officers in a train station in New York managed to interrogate me using a classic "good cop, bad cop" method -- about photographs that I was taking. I felt especially weird about this afterward because I had been reading news articles about people's legal right to take photographs in public places. Apparently, my theoretical desire to assert my rights in an interaction with law enforcement somehow wasn't borne out in practice, and their interrogation methods are incredibly effective. One thing I found striking when looking briefly at the linked transcript of the interview with Reality Winner is her concern for her pets. Making sure that her pets are properly taken care of is something that she needs from the agents and that's outside of her control in this situation. They don't explicitly bargain about this, but it seems like it's one big reason that she wants them to see her as cooperative.
- jnbiche 9y ago
  > Making sure that her pets are properly taken care of is something that she needs from the agents and that's outside of her control in this situation. Exactly, and she knows that pets frequently get shot in situations like the one she was in (although to be fair, that's usually with city and state police depts, not the FBI).
- rdtsc 9y ago
  Yeah I noticed the pets too, no doubt the FBI agents picked up her concern for it and used the situation to their advantage. Imagine if it was kids, friends or relatives. "Sure don't have to talk to us, but keep in mind we can arrest you, and we don't want to do it, who knows what weirdos your kids might end up with..." "-Yeah sure let's talk..."
wallace_f 9y ago
What she leaked didn't hurt the deep state or the plutocracy, nor did it help the people. She is either hopelessly naive in all of her actions, or controlled. Probably the former.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
andy_ppp 9y ago
When you are in this situation fine, sat at your desk, relaxed. If I pretend to be your friend make you feel amazing then crank up the pressure before you realise what’s going on you’re being quizzed at a pace by someone who doesn’t even give you time to breath and starts making threats about your future well-being. Sure, you might forget the lawyer the first time this happens.
sliverstorm 9y ago
I don't exactly have an attorney on retainer or a generous "legal expenses" cost center.
- candiodari 9y ago
  You don't need one on retainer. When they say one will be assigned, they're not kidding. They will get you one.
  - AlexCoventry 9y ago
    Isn't that means-tested?
    - IncRnd 9y ago
      It is Miranda-tested in the US.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - AlexCoventry 9y ago
        This article asserts that means testing is applied in at least some circumstances. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/12/you-have-the-right-to-counsel-or-do-you/1983199/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/12/you-ha...
- heartbreak 9y ago
  You'll get a public defender.
  - sliverstorm 9y ago
    Sorry, I don't closely follow this whole "don't talk to the police ever" thing- is this the case even when you're just refusing to talk to the police on the street without an attorney? Was always under the impression the right to publicly provided legal counsel mostly centered on an actual trial.
tgarma1234 9y ago
Because you will be afraid that if you don't comply they will treat you badly and maybe even take you to jail. You can see in the interview of RW that the FBI agents make it seem like they are just there to find out what happened and they say several times that they think she just made a mistake. They are doing that in order to get her to see them as allies in the search for the truth and to minimize the gravity of the situation. So, in a case like this she would probably be sitting there thinking "yeah it was a mistake I didn't want to do that at all I can't believe I made a mistake like that" which makes it all but impossible for her to halt the interview and request an attorney. In order to have asked for legal representation she would have had to see the gravity of the situation, which the FBI agents downplayed over and over as a trick.

AlexCoventry 9y ago

I think it's worth considering that her work environment may have conditioned her to compliance with authority.