5 ms·

How grossly manipulative

pault 9y ago
You could take that view or you could think of it as putting your best foot forward. How manipulative it is depends on your intentions.
saulrh 9y ago
Tools are tools. Some people use these techniques to be manipulative. Others use them to protect themselves from those that use them maliciously, or as a social prosthesis the same way they might use a meticulous journal to combat an attention or memory disorder.
zschuessler 9y ago
I can see how one may think that! I see charm as a way to make connections with others (which is awesome!). It's also crazy fun to inflect your voice. Everyone has a better time when you're okay being silly. Would you treat a new acquaintance like they had the plague? Probably not. Is it manipulative to be nice to someone? I don't think so. Being silly with inflection, or using any of the tools described in the article, for me is just another way to relate to others. I won't deny some may use the tools for manipulation - but the practice isn't inherently manipulative in my opinion.
- hateduser2 9y ago
  Nothing you said here changed my view, I feel like you’ve just obscured the point.
- mwcgtbkp5yfg 9y ago
  Beyond being manipulative, it's coming across in your descriptions as childish and weird. How about you just act how you feel? That seems a lot more relatable.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
eeZah7Ux 9y ago
> How grossly manipulative Thanks for this. It's interesting to see that the main comment threads are: - how interrogations leverage psychological manipulation to divulge information - how to use verbal and visual tricks - tabeth pointing out how people perceive social interactions as insincere Yet a lot of people claim that it's ok to deploy psychological manipulation when your intentions are "good". It's been said that the end doesn't justify the means.
- mcguire 9y ago
  The ends do not justify the means, rather the means determine the ends you get. And if the means you use are a complete and obvious disinterest in other people...
oneeyedpigeon 9y ago
So much so that some of it appears bordering on psychopathy: concentrate on the colours in someone's eyes to pretend you care about what they're saying, indeed!
- mcguire 9y ago
  As opposed to staring at your lap or the middle distance to demonstrate how you couldn't give a flying rat's ass about them?
  - oneeyedpigeon 9y ago
    As opposed to actually caring about what they have to say. There's a much more agreeable part of the article that talks about finding common ground with the second party.
simplify 9y ago
Is it manipulative to attempt to invoke emotion in music as well? If not, what would be the difference?
- mwcgtbkp5yfg 9y ago
  Yes, it is. The difference is that I generally choose to listen to specific types of music (or to see performances that I willing choose to let manipulate me). If a random person on the street came up to me and started playing any sort of music, that would be incredibly rude. (Note that this is different than buskers who are not generally targeting a specific person and generally need a permit to perform in a specific place.)
krrrh 9y ago
Some people are naturally and unconsciously charming, and others, through a confluence of nature and experience, aren’t, and might not even realize it. Is it fair for the less charming people to be at a permanent disadvantage? Or does being conscious of what is for others unconscious make one automatically manipulative? What if after a few months or years of intential charm, it became automatic? Compare it to being a poor driver that is unknowingly causing stress and danger to fellow drivers. They take a course in defensive driving and consciously learn a few techniques like counting the distance between them the vehicle in front, not passing in the right lane, anticipating red lights, etc. After a couple of years of consciously driving like this these habits become automatic and traffic around them functions more smoothly. Practicing social skills is more like this than you probably think. Learning how to write clearly and persuasively is another example that one could dismiss as manipulative at their own peril.
ksk 9y ago
Who is being manipulated?
Lon7 9y ago
Manipulative, maybe. But why grossly? All you are doing is making the other person feel good. It should be encouraged and celebrated. If you have a choice between making someone feel neutral, or feel great, why wouldn't you choose great?
- mwcgtbkp5yfg 9y ago
  Because it's manipulative, if I don't know you.

You could take that view or you could think of it as putting your best foot forward. How manipulative it is depends on your intentions.

saulrh 9y ago

Tools are tools. Some people use these techniques to be manipulative. Others use them to protect themselves from those that use them maliciously, or as a social prosthesis the same way they might use a meticulous journal to combat an attention or memory disorder.

zschuessler 9y ago

I can see how one may think that! I see charm as a way to make connections with others (which is awesome!). It's also crazy fun to inflect your voice. Everyone has a better time when you're okay being silly. Would you treat a new acquaintance like they had the plague? Probably not. Is it manipulative to be nice to someone? I don't think so. Being silly with inflection, or using any of the tools described in the article, for me is just another way to relate to others. I won't deny some may use the tools for manipulation - but the practice isn't inherently manipulative in my opinion.

hateduser2 9y ago
Nothing you said here changed my view, I feel like you’ve just obscured the point.
mwcgtbkp5yfg 9y ago
Beyond being manipulative, it's coming across in your descriptions as childish and weird. How about you just act how you feel? That seems a lot more relatable.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

eeZah7Ux 9y ago

> How grossly manipulative Thanks for this. It's interesting to see that the main comment threads are: - how interrogations leverage psychological manipulation to divulge information - how to use verbal and visual tricks - tabeth pointing out how people perceive social interactions as insincere Yet a lot of people claim that it's ok to deploy psychological manipulation when your intentions are "good". It's been said that the end doesn't justify the means.

mcguire 9y ago
The ends do not justify the means, rather the means determine the ends you get. And if the means you use are a complete and obvious disinterest in other people...

oneeyedpigeon 9y ago

So much so that some of it appears bordering on psychopathy: concentrate on the colours in someone's eyes to pretend you care about what they're saying, indeed!

mcguire 9y ago
As opposed to staring at your lap or the middle distance to demonstrate how you couldn't give a flying rat's ass about them?
- oneeyedpigeon 9y ago
  As opposed to actually caring about what they have to say. There's a much more agreeable part of the article that talks about finding common ground with the second party.

simplify 9y ago

Is it manipulative to attempt to invoke emotion in music as well? If not, what would be the difference?

mwcgtbkp5yfg 9y ago
Yes, it is. The difference is that I generally choose to listen to specific types of music (or to see performances that I willing choose to let manipulate me). If a random person on the street came up to me and started playing any sort of music, that would be incredibly rude. (Note that this is different than buskers who are not generally targeting a specific person and generally need a permit to perform in a specific place.)

krrrh 9y ago

Some people are naturally and unconsciously charming, and others, through a confluence of nature and experience, aren’t, and might not even realize it. Is it fair for the less charming people to be at a permanent disadvantage? Or does being conscious of what is for others unconscious make one automatically manipulative? What if after a few months or years of intential charm, it became automatic? Compare it to being a poor driver that is unknowingly causing stress and danger to fellow drivers. They take a course in defensive driving and consciously learn a few techniques like counting the distance between them the vehicle in front, not passing in the right lane, anticipating red lights, etc. After a couple of years of consciously driving like this these habits become automatic and traffic around them functions more smoothly. Practicing social skills is more like this than you probably think. Learning how to write clearly and persuasively is another example that one could dismiss as manipulative at their own peril.

ksk 9y ago

Who is being manipulated?

Lon7 9y ago

Manipulative, maybe. But why grossly? All you are doing is making the other person feel good. It should be encouraged and celebrated. If you have a choice between making someone feel neutral, or feel great, why wouldn't you choose great?

mwcgtbkp5yfg 9y ago
Because it's manipulative, if I don't know you.