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Rarely comment, but definitely identify with this. Given HN's general focus on growth and funding, I think it's great/important for an article/concept like this

Rarely comment, but definitely identify with this. Given HN's general focus on growth and funding, I think it's great/important for an article/concept like this to be given some reach. I find that there isn't enough critical thought given to why one ought to pursue an aggressive growth strategy. And that generally, staying small is seen as a failure to grow, rather than a conscious effort to grow in line with ones own life. Going from 3 to 100 employees in a (relatively) short period will naturally have a large impact on one's personal life and mental/emotional state. I think it's important to ask, before one ventures into that kind of adventure, whether or not you're okay risking mental/emotional (and arguably physical) stability in place of the adventure, and the potential financial windfall. There's nothing wrong with saying no to that risk. This is a short life we have, and spending it chasing growth to keep up w/ the momentum of the extremes of capitalism doesn't need to be your game ;) [edit] Prefer my last paragraph be written as: There's nothing wrong with saying no to that risk. This is a short life we have, and if you're spending it chasing growth to keep up w/ the momentum of the extremes of capitalism, it doesn't need to be your game ;)

v_lisivka 9y ago
Startup is aimed at growth, to become next unicorn. If your business is not aimed at growth, then it is just regular business. YCombinator is incubator for startups, hence their HN site is aimed at startups too.
- jchw 9y ago
  I can see why YCombinator would be biased toward startups that raise funding, HOWEVER: I've always understood the word 'startup' to simply mean any new business.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- onassar 9y ago
  Interesting view; I suppose if you look at HN as an extension of YC, then you're right: it would make sense that HN tends to focus/cater more to the growth/funding points of view. For me, HN has become a source of news/ideas related to innovation (with an obvious leaning towards digital/technological innovation). I guess, given how I see this community (and use it for access), it's refreshing to see an article like this :)
- baxtr 9y ago
  It very much depends on how you define a startup
- wslh 9y ago
  You missed an important point: a startup can pursue growth in a healthy way which is not frantically scaling. It can take a decade or more to convert/pivot your company into a valuable one. The typical VC fund structure limits this approach.
- combatentropy 9y ago
  > What to Submit: > On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity. --- https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- tablet 9y ago
  Exactly. Startup = Growth http://www.paulgraham.com/growth.html http://www.paulgraham.com/growth.html
  - neltnerb 9y ago
    I mean, Steve Blank's definition is equally valid. https://steveblank.com/2010/01/25/whats-a-startup-first-principles/ https://steveblank.com/2010/01/25/whats-a-startup-first-prin... "A startup is an organization formed to search for a repeatable and scalable business model." Maybe you see "scalable" and think "to a billion users". I see "scalable" and think "sustainable over the long term". I think a small business is when you know the business model can work and have moved on to long-term execution. Until then you are a startup.
    - vonmoltke 9y ago
      > I think a small business is when you know the business model can work and have moved on to long-term execution. Until then you are a startup. I disagree slightly. A small business is one where the founders have a particular business model in mind, regardless if it's feasibility. If the business model is wrong, the business folds; it doesn't pivot. Until I was introduced to the startup community this was my sole understanding of "starting a business".
- paganel 9y ago
  I first registered on HN many years ago because reddit had started to become more “mainstream”, so to speak, i.e. the programming-related posts had become the exception rather than the rule. As such I was never interested in start-ups, no matter how the HN founders relate to the start-up world. I think I’m not the only one in this boat. I’m also not obsessing that much over money, other than having enough funds for decent rent, a low-middle-class vacation per year and for gas and insurance for my small 1.4l hatchback. Paying (sometimes) too much money for books is my only guilty pleasure, but you don’t need to own a business in order to do that.
combatentropy 9y ago
This reminds me of the story of the fisherman and businessman, https://www.becomingminimalist.com/recognizing-happiness/ https://www.becomingminimalist.com/recognizing-happiness/
jasode 9y ago
>Given HN's general focus on growth and funding, I think it's great/important for an article/concept like this to be given some reach. [...] , it's refreshing to see an article like this It's interesting how people get this inaccurate perspective. It's an interesting phenomenon where the majority (incorrectly) believes they are the suppressed minority. (I feel there must be a name to describe that phenomenon but I don't know what it is.) The HN community actually is heavily tilted towards no-growth or low-growth bootstrapped companies. (I use "HN" to mean the HN discussion forum and not the YC fund.) Spending any time on HN and noticing what type of business articles are popular would make that obvious. Also, a relevant quote from dang: "Far more HN commenters (and voters) identify against VC than with it.": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13931617 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13931617 Examples of this are the very popular David Heinemeier Hansson (DHH) articles that make a case for staying small and avoiding VC money that pressures you to grow fast: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14694434 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14694434 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13668746 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13668746 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13929398 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13929398 Those get upvoted to the front page and commenters pile on in violent agreement. There's no need to be "refreshed" by the advice to stay small -- it's basically the default sentiment on HN.
- npgatech 9y ago
  I found your comment a bit abrasive, yet you’re lacking the grit to support it besides just anecdotal evidence (just as the parent comment). I have yet another opinion - I’ve seen a wide variety of articles on HN from how to grow fast to how to stay small. We’re not going to stay productive by arguing without data.
  - jasode 9y ago
    >support it besides just anecdotal evidence If it isn't clear, "dang" is one of the longtime moderators and I'm confident he's seen enough quantity of posts over the years to have an accurate pulse of the HN readership. There are virtually zero articles giving the advice to "take VC money and grow grow grow" that made it to the front page. (If you have examples, please post them.) The YC fund emphasizes exponential growth startups but in contrast, the HN discussions downgrade it. This thread's article from Antoine Finkelstein and the DHH posts that I cited are much more popular with the HN crowd. I'm not complaining about it; it's just an interesting observation.

v_lisivka 9y ago

Startup is aimed at growth, to become next unicorn. If your business is not aimed at growth, then it is just regular business. YCombinator is incubator for startups, hence their HN site is aimed at startups too.

jchw 9y ago
I can see why YCombinator would be biased toward startups that raise funding, HOWEVER: I've always understood the word 'startup' to simply mean any new business.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
onassar 9y ago
Interesting view; I suppose if you look at HN as an extension of YC, then you're right: it would make sense that HN tends to focus/cater more to the growth/funding points of view. For me, HN has become a source of news/ideas related to innovation (with an obvious leaning towards digital/technological innovation). I guess, given how I see this community (and use it for access), it's refreshing to see an article like this :)
baxtr 9y ago
It very much depends on how you define a startup
wslh 9y ago
You missed an important point: a startup can pursue growth in a healthy way which is not frantically scaling. It can take a decade or more to convert/pivot your company into a valuable one. The typical VC fund structure limits this approach.
combatentropy 9y ago
> What to Submit: > On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity. --- https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
tablet 9y ago
Exactly. Startup = Growth http://www.paulgraham.com/growth.html http://www.paulgraham.com/growth.html
- neltnerb 9y ago
  I mean, Steve Blank's definition is equally valid. https://steveblank.com/2010/01/25/whats-a-startup-first-principles/ https://steveblank.com/2010/01/25/whats-a-startup-first-prin... "A startup is an organization formed to search for a repeatable and scalable business model." Maybe you see "scalable" and think "to a billion users". I see "scalable" and think "sustainable over the long term". I think a small business is when you know the business model can work and have moved on to long-term execution. Until then you are a startup.
  - vonmoltke 9y ago
    > I think a small business is when you know the business model can work and have moved on to long-term execution. Until then you are a startup. I disagree slightly. A small business is one where the founders have a particular business model in mind, regardless if it's feasibility. If the business model is wrong, the business folds; it doesn't pivot. Until I was introduced to the startup community this was my sole understanding of "starting a business".
paganel 9y ago
I first registered on HN many years ago because reddit had started to become more “mainstream”, so to speak, i.e. the programming-related posts had become the exception rather than the rule. As such I was never interested in start-ups, no matter how the HN founders relate to the start-up world. I think I’m not the only one in this boat. I’m also not obsessing that much over money, other than having enough funds for decent rent, a low-middle-class vacation per year and for gas and insurance for my small 1.4l hatchback. Paying (sometimes) too much money for books is my only guilty pleasure, but you don’t need to own a business in order to do that.

combatentropy 9y ago

This reminds me of the story of the fisherman and businessman, https://www.becomingminimalist.com/recognizing-happiness/ https://www.becomingminimalist.com/recognizing-happiness/

jasode 9y ago

>Given HN's general focus on growth and funding, I think it's great/important for an article/concept like this to be given some reach. [...] , it's refreshing to see an article like this It's interesting how people get this inaccurate perspective. It's an interesting phenomenon where the majority (incorrectly) believes they are the suppressed minority. (I feel there must be a name to describe that phenomenon but I don't know what it is.) The HN community actually is heavily tilted towards no-growth or low-growth bootstrapped companies. (I use "HN" to mean the HN discussion forum and not the YC fund.) Spending any time on HN and noticing what type of business articles are popular would make that obvious. Also, a relevant quote from dang: "Far more HN commenters (and voters) identify against VC than with it.": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13931617 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13931617 Examples of this are the very popular David Heinemeier Hansson (DHH) articles that make a case for staying small and avoiding VC money that pressures you to grow fast: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14694434 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14694434 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13668746 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13668746 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13929398 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13929398 Those get upvoted to the front page and commenters pile on in violent agreement. There's no need to be "refreshed" by the advice to stay small -- it's basically the default sentiment on HN.

npgatech 9y ago
I found your comment a bit abrasive, yet you’re lacking the grit to support it besides just anecdotal evidence (just as the parent comment). I have yet another opinion - I’ve seen a wide variety of articles on HN from how to grow fast to how to stay small. We’re not going to stay productive by arguing without data.
- jasode 9y ago
  >support it besides just anecdotal evidence If it isn't clear, "dang" is one of the longtime moderators and I'm confident he's seen enough quantity of posts over the years to have an accurate pulse of the HN readership. There are virtually zero articles giving the advice to "take VC money and grow grow grow" that made it to the front page. (If you have examples, please post them.) The YC fund emphasizes exponential growth startups but in contrast, the HN discussions downgrade it. This thread's article from Antoine Finkelstein and the DHH posts that I cited are much more popular with the HN crowd. I'm not complaining about it; it's just an interesting observation.