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>It's very easy to assume everybody is like you. No, I am saying there are more like me than there are of other types. And if there aren't so be it. But that d

>It's very easy to assume everybody is like you. No, I am saying there are more like me than there are of other types. And if there aren't so be it. But that doesn't mean I am wrong, it just means it's not useful to you or a subset of people you are listing. So are you suggesting I not saying something because it doesn't help everyone? >I just wish that after some time, you will see your faults about making blanket statements about people with mental disorders and addictions after beating such a dangerously addictive substance like white sugar. You do know that sugar is more addicting that heroin (edit: it was "cocaine", not heroin, oh well) right? I'd say that is no small feat, and you are belittling something out of context. Hard drugs and sugar are equals in this regard. Also, I don't like bringing up the darker side of what I have faced, as it can quickly spiral. I was suicidal as a young kid. I was in the hospital multiple times from suicide attempts, so I absolutely understand what people with real problems face. I simply chose to write about a simpler and easier change that is possible. But it seems even this is frowned upon. You may want to be careful you don't fall into the "crab mentality" with your comments. I truly think people can turn things around in their lives. And I hope you read my other comments so I don't end up repeating myself too much. But we should be encouraging eachother to find answers not telling eachother we can't make it.

pwaai 9y ago
> You do know that sugar is more addicting that heroin right? Do you seriously believe this? Do you get physical withdrawl symptoms like you get from heroin? Are you willing to steal from your wife and children just to get a hit of sugar? Have you tried heroin before?
- RobertRoberts 9y ago
  Yes, you do get withdrawl symptoms. Try going a week without eating any sugar and see how you feel. I know it's not the same thing, I lived on the streets for a while and I had friends that used heroin and many other drugs. But if the scientists say it's more addicting, who am I to disagree? (google this, no point in arguing with me about it) I also lived with some hippies in the woods, they had a name for this addiction they called sugar "zhoo zhoos" (had to guess the spelling, never saw it written) There are all these people in the woods, haven't eaten anything but rice for weeks, and then some city folks come into the woods and bring candy, and you'd think a bunch of drug addicts came out of the wood works. The city hippies were kind freaked out by it. I heard one say "man, here you can have my candy bar if you need it that bad."
  - pwaai 9y ago
    so does your withdrawl symptoms get so bad that you would steal from your wife and children? are you willing to risk your life and commit crimes to get a hit of sugar?
    - RobertRoberts 9y ago
      Probably not. But not everybody who has a hard drug addiction will do this either. In fact I would bet it's a very small minority of drug users would do this. But I also know that some people will steal from their families and commit crimes and don't do any drugs at all. So maybe not a fair comparison?
      - pwaai 9y ago
        > Probably not. But not everybody who has a hard drug addiction will do this either. You won't steal from your family because sugar addiction withdrawl pales in comparison to heroin withdrawl, which you claimed to be less addictive than sugar. I'm trying to illustrate that you were conflating the two, that opiate users can quit just like you quit sugar. You couldn't be more wrong. Opiate addiction is a completely different beast than your sweet tooth and I hope you realize this by now. Someone who's been heroin for decades will not be able to just quit cold turkey. Someone who's been abusing alcohol for such long time will not be able to stop without experiencing life threatening seizures. True addiction will rob somebody the ability to make healthy decisions. This is why there are supervised injection sites to reduce harm because the addicts themselves will hurt themselves and others just to get a fix. They are willing to prostitute their wife and daughter so they can get a fix to avoid the withdrawls, so would you be willing to do the same if sugar was illegal? Heroin changes your brain structure after you experience the massive flood of dopamine many magnitude times greater than 'sugar rush'. The user chases that first high and pretty quickly, heroin/opiate becomes the sole purpose. It's very insulting to to claim as you did that these drug addicts and people driven to suicidal depression just needed to 'think positive'. You are not a heroin addict but sugar addict. You don't live on the streets but in the warmth of a house and a family. Those people on the streets whom you claim society is 'siding with' cannot make the same decisions as you did because they don't have the same resources as you do.
whiddershins 9y ago
Dude. I quit sugar and it was literally a non issue, I barely noticed. Since then I've gone on and off at various times and it has never taken any willpower to speak of. Smoking, otoh? A horrible, personality deforming withdrawal. Drinking? A pernicious little voice in my head that pops up at the worst moments. I've been reading all your comments on this thread and I think you are really on to something, and I think you are right that the way people talk about the steps required for change is flawed. I do think though, that if you want to spread your insight to as many people as possible, an effective element would be to deliver your message with the explicit acknowledgement and context that the subjective experience of all of these things varies dramatically from individual to individual. This might hone down the relevant ideas to just the ones that apply to many other people. If you can distinguish your unique experience from the universal aspects you can craft a message that might help a large population. But no, not everybody finds sugar more addictive than cocaine.
- RobertRoberts 9y ago
  >But no, not everybody finds sugar more addictive than cocaine. Not everyone finds cigarettes addictive either. I smoked quite a bit when I was younger, off and on, and never felt the need to smoke ever. Doesn't this same logic apply universally then? That every chemical reaction affects everyone differently? But no matter what, there are some chemicals that are addictive to the majority of people? >...explicit acknowledgement and context that the subjective experience of all of these things varies dramatically from individual to individual. I agree, that especially in this area, depression, life change, etc... that it would be best to couch everything with the "doesn't work for everyone" kind of phrase, but isn't this redundant? What solution for any problem works for everyone? I think that in this case, everyone in the world has something they don't like about their life, and have a hard time facing it. Because it simply hurts to face your problems. How do you suggest to people that if they want their pain to go away, they should do something to that adds more pain to their life? The easy answer I found was to not worry about it, people who will see the value see it, and those that don't are not in the mind set to see it no matter how it is written. Maybe I am wrong, but in other comments here it seems that people get quite upset about saying you can change yourself. Do you really think it's possible to get through to everyone? Or would just changing how things are written would help people that would otherwise ignore it?

pwaai 9y ago

> You do know that sugar is more addicting that heroin right? Do you seriously believe this? Do you get physical withdrawl symptoms like you get from heroin? Are you willing to steal from your wife and children just to get a hit of sugar? Have you tried heroin before?

RobertRoberts 9y ago
Yes, you do get withdrawl symptoms. Try going a week without eating any sugar and see how you feel. I know it's not the same thing, I lived on the streets for a while and I had friends that used heroin and many other drugs. But if the scientists say it's more addicting, who am I to disagree? (google this, no point in arguing with me about it) I also lived with some hippies in the woods, they had a name for this addiction they called sugar "zhoo zhoos" (had to guess the spelling, never saw it written) There are all these people in the woods, haven't eaten anything but rice for weeks, and then some city folks come into the woods and bring candy, and you'd think a bunch of drug addicts came out of the wood works. The city hippies were kind freaked out by it. I heard one say "man, here you can have my candy bar if you need it that bad."
- pwaai 9y ago
  so does your withdrawl symptoms get so bad that you would steal from your wife and children? are you willing to risk your life and commit crimes to get a hit of sugar?
  - RobertRoberts 9y ago
    Probably not. But not everybody who has a hard drug addiction will do this either. In fact I would bet it's a very small minority of drug users would do this. But I also know that some people will steal from their families and commit crimes and don't do any drugs at all. So maybe not a fair comparison?
    - pwaai 9y ago
      > Probably not. But not everybody who has a hard drug addiction will do this either. You won't steal from your family because sugar addiction withdrawl pales in comparison to heroin withdrawl, which you claimed to be less addictive than sugar. I'm trying to illustrate that you were conflating the two, that opiate users can quit just like you quit sugar. You couldn't be more wrong. Opiate addiction is a completely different beast than your sweet tooth and I hope you realize this by now. Someone who's been heroin for decades will not be able to just quit cold turkey. Someone who's been abusing alcohol for such long time will not be able to stop without experiencing life threatening seizures. True addiction will rob somebody the ability to make healthy decisions. This is why there are supervised injection sites to reduce harm because the addicts themselves will hurt themselves and others just to get a fix. They are willing to prostitute their wife and daughter so they can get a fix to avoid the withdrawls, so would you be willing to do the same if sugar was illegal? Heroin changes your brain structure after you experience the massive flood of dopamine many magnitude times greater than 'sugar rush'. The user chases that first high and pretty quickly, heroin/opiate becomes the sole purpose. It's very insulting to to claim as you did that these drug addicts and people driven to suicidal depression just needed to 'think positive'. You are not a heroin addict but sugar addict. You don't live on the streets but in the warmth of a house and a family. Those people on the streets whom you claim society is 'siding with' cannot make the same decisions as you did because they don't have the same resources as you do.

whiddershins 9y ago

Dude. I quit sugar and it was literally a non issue, I barely noticed. Since then I've gone on and off at various times and it has never taken any willpower to speak of. Smoking, otoh? A horrible, personality deforming withdrawal. Drinking? A pernicious little voice in my head that pops up at the worst moments. I've been reading all your comments on this thread and I think you are really on to something, and I think you are right that the way people talk about the steps required for change is flawed. I do think though, that if you want to spread your insight to as many people as possible, an effective element would be to deliver your message with the explicit acknowledgement and context that the subjective experience of all of these things varies dramatically from individual to individual. This might hone down the relevant ideas to just the ones that apply to many other people. If you can distinguish your unique experience from the universal aspects you can craft a message that might help a large population. But no, not everybody finds sugar more addictive than cocaine.

RobertRoberts 9y ago
>But no, not everybody finds sugar more addictive than cocaine. Not everyone finds cigarettes addictive either. I smoked quite a bit when I was younger, off and on, and never felt the need to smoke ever. Doesn't this same logic apply universally then? That every chemical reaction affects everyone differently? But no matter what, there are some chemicals that are addictive to the majority of people? >...explicit acknowledgement and context that the subjective experience of all of these things varies dramatically from individual to individual. I agree, that especially in this area, depression, life change, etc... that it would be best to couch everything with the "doesn't work for everyone" kind of phrase, but isn't this redundant? What solution for any problem works for everyone? I think that in this case, everyone in the world has something they don't like about their life, and have a hard time facing it. Because it simply hurts to face your problems. How do you suggest to people that if they want their pain to go away, they should do something to that adds more pain to their life? The easy answer I found was to not worry about it, people who will see the value see it, and those that don't are not in the mind set to see it no matter how it is written. Maybe I am wrong, but in other comments here it seems that people get quite upset about saying you can change yourself. Do you really think it's possible to get through to everyone? Or would just changing how things are written would help people that would otherwise ignore it?