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I learned C# a while ago when started a project in the now defunct XNA. I loved how I felt like home when moving from Java bit with some really nice differences

I learned C# a while ago when started a project in the now defunct XNA. I loved how I felt like home when moving from Java bit with some really nice differences. I thought that after open sourcing .Net the C# adoption outside the MS ecosystem would be wider by now, but I feel it's not the case. Or am I missing a trend I'm not aware of? (which is very likely too)

oblio 9y ago
There is still wide resentment towards Microsoft, just go to /r/programming and check out threads about .Net, there's at least a few threads at the bottom going "EEE". Plus dotnet core wasn't API stable until recently. I think we're still 1-2 years from mass adoption. Also check @librexpr's comment above, there's a lot of confusion around.
- mattmanser 9y ago
  It's still not really any where near finished is it? I think they finally managed to get image manipulation in to replace the missing System.Drawing, but EF Core is still woefully half-finished. The literally seem to have no clue about how people actually use their system and keep focusing on all the wrong things. Actually, it's more like some idealist programmers have become the core team instead of getting-it-done programmers, so it's all the latest fads instead of getting finished. The obsession with async isn't helping either, it makes the code so bad for no real-world performance gains. My impression is they are moving super slowly and from the POV of an existing customer, the whole process has been a complete disaster. It might end up ok, but at the moment it's just a bad version of existing .Net.
  - genzoman 9y ago
    Your paragraph about they "literally don't know how people use their system" seems obvious to me that you must be a 10x mega developer with insider knowledge. Idealist programmers, you're right! Async await offers NO benefits and was implemented in es6 as a mistake... probably corporate bullying.
  - jayd16 9y ago
    Async is bad and you're pining for entity framework? We lead different lives.
kuschku 9y ago
C# is significantly missing tooling. The tooling on Windows is okayish, but that's about it. You have no cross-platform build and dependency management tool that runs on .NET Core (Using MSBuild and NuGet together requires Mono or the full .NET Framework), and there's only an early version of JetBrains' Rider IDE for non-Windows platforms, there's basically no working integration with any CI or CD system, and the library ecosystem is basically not existing, compared to the open source Java world.
- megaman22 9y ago
  This is just incorrect, and getting more incorrect every day. Rider is RTM, and works beautifully, particularly with .Net Core. It's trivial to setup CI/CD with Jenkins, or TeamCity, or VSTS. What library support is missing on .Net vs the JVM? In my experience everything that's really useful has .Net ports.
  - kuschku 9y ago
    It is trivial? Then please help me — I'm trying to use C# more again — what I should use for dependency management, builds, and artifacts deployment (basically, an equivalent to gradle) on .NET Core. I'm seeing Cake, aka C# Make, but the C# subreddit told me that's useless and I should just use MSBuild. But that doesn't get me my dependencies at all, and doesn't run on .NET Core. I could write a bash script to invoke nuget and the C# compiler but that would be ridiculous. For libraries, from http2 to time + date libraries, C# is lacking, in tmy last project I ended up straight up translating the parts of JSR-310 I needed. I'm looking for a 1:1 replacement for JVM languages here, especially regarding tooling. Rider has proven much less mature than IDEA for now.
    - megaman22 9y ago
      Trying to directly translate a Java-style workflow to .Net is probably going to be tough sledding; it's just not how things are done. You can do it, but you'll fight everything more than being on the happy path. The dotnet CLI tooling is relatively slick, from what I've seen.
jayd16 9y ago
It's slow going but I'm not sure that's bad or unexpected. MS bought mono and that blessed it as a platform that isn't dead in the water. Most existing projects are fine staying where they are until Microsoft hardens .NET core.

oblio 9y ago

There is still wide resentment towards Microsoft, just go to /r/programming and check out threads about .Net, there's at least a few threads at the bottom going "EEE". Plus dotnet core wasn't API stable until recently. I think we're still 1-2 years from mass adoption. Also check @librexpr's comment above, there's a lot of confusion around.

mattmanser 9y ago
It's still not really any where near finished is it? I think they finally managed to get image manipulation in to replace the missing System.Drawing, but EF Core is still woefully half-finished. The literally seem to have no clue about how people actually use their system and keep focusing on all the wrong things. Actually, it's more like some idealist programmers have become the core team instead of getting-it-done programmers, so it's all the latest fads instead of getting finished. The obsession with async isn't helping either, it makes the code so bad for no real-world performance gains. My impression is they are moving super slowly and from the POV of an existing customer, the whole process has been a complete disaster. It might end up ok, but at the moment it's just a bad version of existing .Net.
- genzoman 9y ago
  Your paragraph about they "literally don't know how people use their system" seems obvious to me that you must be a 10x mega developer with insider knowledge. Idealist programmers, you're right! Async await offers NO benefits and was implemented in es6 as a mistake... probably corporate bullying.
- jayd16 9y ago
  Async is bad and you're pining for entity framework? We lead different lives.

kuschku 9y ago

C# is significantly missing tooling. The tooling on Windows is okayish, but that's about it. You have no cross-platform build and dependency management tool that runs on .NET Core (Using MSBuild and NuGet together requires Mono or the full .NET Framework), and there's only an early version of JetBrains' Rider IDE for non-Windows platforms, there's basically no working integration with any CI or CD system, and the library ecosystem is basically not existing, compared to the open source Java world.

megaman22 9y ago
This is just incorrect, and getting more incorrect every day. Rider is RTM, and works beautifully, particularly with .Net Core. It's trivial to setup CI/CD with Jenkins, or TeamCity, or VSTS. What library support is missing on .Net vs the JVM? In my experience everything that's really useful has .Net ports.
- kuschku 9y ago
  It is trivial? Then please help me — I'm trying to use C# more again — what I should use for dependency management, builds, and artifacts deployment (basically, an equivalent to gradle) on .NET Core. I'm seeing Cake, aka C# Make, but the C# subreddit told me that's useless and I should just use MSBuild. But that doesn't get me my dependencies at all, and doesn't run on .NET Core. I could write a bash script to invoke nuget and the C# compiler but that would be ridiculous. For libraries, from http2 to time + date libraries, C# is lacking, in tmy last project I ended up straight up translating the parts of JSR-310 I needed. I'm looking for a 1:1 replacement for JVM languages here, especially regarding tooling. Rider has proven much less mature than IDEA for now.
  - megaman22 9y ago
    Trying to directly translate a Java-style workflow to .Net is probably going to be tough sledding; it's just not how things are done. You can do it, but you'll fight everything more than being on the happy path. The dotnet CLI tooling is relatively slick, from what I've seen.

jayd16 9y ago

It's slow going but I'm not sure that's bad or unexpected. MS bought mono and that blessed it as a platform that isn't dead in the water. Most existing projects are fine staying where they are until Microsoft hardens .NET core.