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That's what you get for having the "green" party in power in Germany - they pushed for phasing out the nuclear and now it looks how it looks.

by fijal 9y ago

matt4077 9y ago
Yeah... terrible. Twice the carbon intensity of nuclear-only! Meanwhile, Germany has half the carbon intensity of California, 1/4 that of Poland, and 1/7 Australia. With lower prices than France, and with no unsolved long-term storage problems. Plus they arguably single-handedly subsidized solar power to where it is today, I. e. close to be competitive with natural gas. And how they’re suffering! Unemployment at almost 4%, single most dynamic economy in Europe, taking in one million refugees with comparatively little brouhaha (10% voting for the xenophobes in this year’s election, vs. 8000 refugees and 49% for Trump in the US) These Greens have surely been ruining Germany.
- adrianN 9y ago
  140g/kWh when the wind is blowing strongly. On average more than 500g/kWh: https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/sites/default/files/medien/377/bilder/grafik_fur_vorschauseite_jl_13062017.png https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/sites/default/files/medien/37...
- TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
  > and with no unsolved long-term storage problems It could be argued carbon emissions are an unsolved long-term storage problem.
- melling 9y ago
  France has a carbon intensity if 61. Nuclear power really helps. NY state is also under 200 and uses quite a bit of nuclear power. It’s unfortunate that nuclear energy is not acceptable to many people. Hopefully, China will be successful with its adoption.
- joss82 9y ago
  Consumer electricity price in Germany is almost twice the French price. Edit: source https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_pricing#/media/File%3AElectricity-prices-europe.jpg https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_pricing#/media/F...
  - matt4077 9y ago
    yeah... try building a nuclear power plant today for whatever the (heavily subsidized and long written-off) construction costs they use to arrive at those prices.
    - acidburnNSA 9y ago
      S. Korea, Russia, India, China can build them for cheap by standardizing designs. Nuclear doesn't have to be expensive. http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/C-Russia-achieves-serial-nuclear-power-plant-construction-03061502.html http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/C-Russia-achieves-serial-n... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301421516300106 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030142151...
- realusername 9y ago
  Right now the main problem we have is global warming, not nuclear waste storage, we know how to store the waste in good conditions whereas nobody knows how disastrous global warming will be, unless Germany can match the same levels of CO2 as nuclear, their efforts are pretty useless.
  - vixen99 9y ago
    Specifically - how does global warming manifest itself - at present (aside from projections) as a problem in Germany?
    - matt4077 9y ago
      Migration from sub-Saharan Africa is arguably caused by economic problems excercebated by global-warming related droughts.
  - whyever 9y ago
    Nobody knows how to store it in good conditions. The attempts in Germany are highly controversial.
patall 9y ago
That's a comment that you get when you only tell half the truth. While the green party was in power until 2005 and was leading force behind the intial phasing out of nuclear power, the conservative liberal government reversed that move in 2009/2010. Only after Fukushima, those people were afraid of their own electors and, in a highly populist move, reintroduced the phasing out but in a way that it while at first (from a certain, very opportunistic view point) seemed like everything would go along, was later judged that the people would have to pay the power plant operators for their losses (the bill was in all likeliness crafted especially so that the CDU-FDP government could say "hey we tried but now unfortunately and by a weird coincidence our donors still get their money back" [side node: its not the only bill that showed such a characteristic, either those people are highly incompetent ... or really really competent]). And the end of the story: Now the nuclear power plant operators do not even run their plants all the time because under certain conditions it is not even monetarily lucrative to run them anymore. The whole thing would probably run out in the near future just because its too expensive to run.

That's what you get for having the "green" party in power in Germany - they pushed for phasing out the nuclear and now it looks how it looks.

by fijal 9y ago

That's what you get for having the "green" party in power in Germany - they pushed for phasing out the nuclear and now it looks how it looks.

matt4077 9y ago

Yeah... terrible. Twice the carbon intensity of nuclear-only! Meanwhile, Germany has half the carbon intensity of California, 1/4 that of Poland, and 1/7 Australia. With lower prices than France, and with no unsolved long-term storage problems. Plus they arguably single-handedly subsidized solar power to where it is today, I. e. close to be competitive with natural gas. And how they’re suffering! Unemployment at almost 4%, single most dynamic economy in Europe, taking in one million refugees with comparatively little brouhaha (10% voting for the xenophobes in this year’s election, vs. 8000 refugees and 49% for Trump in the US) These Greens have surely been ruining Germany.

adrianN 9y ago
140g/kWh when the wind is blowing strongly. On average more than 500g/kWh: https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/sites/default/files/medien/377/bilder/grafik_fur_vorschauseite_jl_13062017.png https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/sites/default/files/medien/37...
TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
> and with no unsolved long-term storage problems It could be argued carbon emissions are an unsolved long-term storage problem.
melling 9y ago
France has a carbon intensity if 61. Nuclear power really helps. NY state is also under 200 and uses quite a bit of nuclear power. It’s unfortunate that nuclear energy is not acceptable to many people. Hopefully, China will be successful with its adoption.
joss82 9y ago
Consumer electricity price in Germany is almost twice the French price. Edit: source https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_pricing#/media/File%3AElectricity-prices-europe.jpg https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_pricing#/media/F...
- matt4077 9y ago
  yeah... try building a nuclear power plant today for whatever the (heavily subsidized and long written-off) construction costs they use to arrive at those prices.
  - acidburnNSA 9y ago
    S. Korea, Russia, India, China can build them for cheap by standardizing designs. Nuclear doesn't have to be expensive. http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/C-Russia-achieves-serial-nuclear-power-plant-construction-03061502.html http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/C-Russia-achieves-serial-n... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301421516300106 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030142151...
realusername 9y ago
Right now the main problem we have is global warming, not nuclear waste storage, we know how to store the waste in good conditions whereas nobody knows how disastrous global warming will be, unless Germany can match the same levels of CO2 as nuclear, their efforts are pretty useless.
- vixen99 9y ago
  Specifically - how does global warming manifest itself - at present (aside from projections) as a problem in Germany?
  - matt4077 9y ago
    Migration from sub-Saharan Africa is arguably caused by economic problems excercebated by global-warming related droughts.
- whyever 9y ago
  Nobody knows how to store it in good conditions. The attempts in Germany are highly controversial.

patall 9y ago

That's a comment that you get when you only tell half the truth. While the green party was in power until 2005 and was leading force behind the intial phasing out of nuclear power, the conservative liberal government reversed that move in 2009/2010. Only after Fukushima, those people were afraid of their own electors and, in a highly populist move, reintroduced the phasing out but in a way that it while at first (from a certain, very opportunistic view point) seemed like everything would go along, was later judged that the people would have to pay the power plant operators for their losses (the bill was in all likeliness crafted especially so that the CDU-FDP government could say "hey we tried but now unfortunately and by a weird coincidence our donors still get their money back" [side node: its not the only bill that showed such a characteristic, either those people are highly incompetent ... or really really competent]). And the end of the story: Now the nuclear power plant operators do not even run their plants all the time because under certain conditions it is not even monetarily lucrative to run them anymore. The whole thing would probably run out in the near future just because its too expensive to run.